Southern CA Edison rates make it not worth charging at home

[Falcon73]

Best we could do was switch to TOU-Prime. 19c off-peak, and 47c from 4-9PM.

20kW daily charge x 19c/kWh x 30 days = $114/mo

The savings just keep drying up! Gotta get out of this state.

SCE gave me a worse plan (TOU-D-4-9) than the above but we will be on the new Prime rate as of the next reading.

We were paying 0.13 for super off peak but now it's 0.30 for off peak until the conversion is done.

We were on a grandfathered plan (TOU-D-B) but they ended it in December.

Gas is almost $5 a gallon. My wife was paying about $60 a week for gas when we last had an ICE and gas was cheaper then.

 

[sleepydoc]

Out of curiosity, how is solar generation handled in these service areas? In MN we have net metering and the electric utilities are obligated to pay the average daily rate for solar energy fed back to the grid. Since we have a discounted off peak plan it makes more sense for us to sell any excess solar back to the utility and charge for a cheaper rate at night.

 

[STS-134]

Sorry, you’re right. I posted prematurely, and can't figure out how to edit my post. Anyways, here’s where I left off:

-My wife works from home and in-laws live with us so day time/peak use is higher than average household. She often works in the evenings, which is happens to be peak 4-9pm rates. She's in software so it's computer heavy work, which I assume is energy intensive.

Computers don't really use that much energy. Half a kilowatt at most. If it's a notebook PC, well, those are basically limited to around 0.05 to 0.1 kW. That's $15-20 a month of usage during peak hours. The vast majority of peak energy use is going to be from cooking at HVAC equipment, which can use many thousands of watts.

I’ve been using the mobile charger in a 110V. I was planning on getting NEMA 14-50 installed, but after looking at the numbers, am holding off until I can get some feedback.
Is there something really inefficient with the 110V that is causing the anomaly? Even then, my base rate as of now is .23, which is higher than the .21 supercharger.

Well, 110V is extremely inefficient. The car keeps the computers awake whenever it is charging, and the computers use 300-400W. Since 110-120V only delivers 1300-1400W, 20-40% of the energy being delivered to your car is being wasted running the computers. Charging at 240V and at least 32A would cut the overhead to 5%. Charging at 48A would make the overhead lower still.

Does it make more sense to just supercharge at .21/kWh and stay on my current tiered system?

If you don't care about your battery's longevity or your time, sure. But I'm pretty sure Tesla raised the SC rates since last summer.

 

[lexapro]

SCE gave me a worse plan (TOU-D-4-9) than the above but we will be on the new Prime rate as of the next reading.

We were paying 0.13 for super off peak but now it's 0.30 for off peak until the conversion is done.

We were on a grandfathered plan (TOU-D-B) but they ended it in December.

Gas is almost $5 a gallon. My wife was paying about $60 a week for gas when we last had an ICE and gas was cheaper then.

SCE did the same thing for us. I called into request Prime and they put me on TOU-D-4-9. They have since allegedly corrected it but could not say when the plan would go into effect. Gonna have fun calling in next month to fix the incorrect billing of this month.

On an unrelated note, I work at The Shops @ MV -- maybe we'll run into each other at one of the two SCs here

 

[Falcon73]

Out of curiosity, how is solar generation handled in these service areas? In MN we have net metering and the electric utilities are obligated to pay the average daily rate for solar energy fed back to the grid. Since we have a discounted off peak plan it makes more sense for us to sell any excess solar back to the utility and charge for a cheaper rate at night.

We have Net Metering but it used to work better. Now with peak rates having been shifted to 4-9 when solar generation is much lower... or 0, we are selling back the most power when electricity is cheapest.

I think when I first got solar the peak time was something like 1pm to 5pm. My, it's amazing what shifting this a few hours has done, especially when we aren't on DST and solar noon is like 1130am.

 

[tangible1]

Sorry, you’re right. I posted prematurely, and can't figure out how to edit my post. Anyways, here’s where I left off:

-My wife works from home and in-laws live with us so day time/peak use is higher than average household. She often works in the evenings, which is happens to be peak 4-9pm rates. She's in software so it's computer heavy work, which I assume is energy intensive.
-I’m currently on Tiered system. I’m considering the TOU-prime, but looking at our usage, not sure it would be beneficial given our historic peak usage.
-We purchased a MY in June, but started charging at home using a 110V towards the end of June.

Here is a breakdown of our current rate and TOU rates:

Tier 1: up to 403kWh charged at .23
Tier 2: up to 1612kWh charged at .30
Tier 3: above 1612kWh charged at .38

TOU-Prime Rates (Summer Weekday)
8am-4pm: .17
4pm-9pm: .45
9pm-8am: .17

I have access to supercharger with .21/kWh.

Here’s our historic usage:
June 2020, we used: 970 kWh. Billed: 217.43
July 2020, we used 990 kWh. Billed: 244.20
Aug 2020, we used: 1195 kWh. Billed: 299.06

June 2021, we used: 789 kWh. Billed: 214.49
July 2021, we used 1466 kWh. Billed: 416.22
Aug 2021 was looking like it would be slightly higher than July, until I stopped charging my car.

I’ve been using the mobile charger in a 110V. I was planning on getting NEMA 14-50 installed, but after looking at the numbers, am holding off until I can get some feedback.
Is there something really inefficient with the 110V that is causing the anomaly? Even then, my base rate as of now is .23, which is higher than the .21 supercharger.
Does it make more sense to just supercharge at .21/kWh and stay on my current tiered system?
Will switching the TOU-prime lower my bill significantly?

I’ll attach a screenshoot of daily use by hours on a couple random days when I was charging the Model Y. Thanks for the feedback.

I used a licensed electrician in Huntington Beach to do the final wire and breaker work on a re-purposed dryer circuit on my service panel.
I sourced and installed the connector (socket), enclosure, and conduit. The electrician provided the wire, breaker, and did the final wiring.
Total cost was just under $300.
You don't need a Wall Connector unless you have more than one EV and want/need it's other features.

I can provide you a referral if you PM me here.

The dryer circuit was 30A. We upgraded to a 50A breaker at the service panel.
The laundry roon wiring was left in place, new wiring was run in conduit to a new 14-50 socket in the garage to use with the MY.

 

[TrooperCA]

I have SCE too…rates suck!

It is definitely worth going to SC during off peak to fill up.

Also…have a friend that works at SCE. He said rates are going up again this year because they disabled the nuclear power plant on the 5 freeway going south to San Diego. Renewable energy is expensive so that prices gets past down to customers.

Go Solar if the conditions are right if not then need to find something that works for you. Need to pay premium to charge at home if you live in California.

 

[TomServo]

I'm not on ANY plan here in southern IL being powered by Ameren IP and I pay a flat rate of 10.25 cents per kWh. They just announced a new EV rate and will look into that. But holy moly you folks getting ripped off.

Maybe the best place to own an EV is in Fly Over country?

 

[TrooperCA]

I'm not on ANY plan here in southern IL being powered by Ameren IP and I pay a flat rate of 10.25 cents per kWh. They just announced a new EV rate and will look into that. But holy moly you folks getting ripped off.

Maybe the best place to own an EV is in Fly Over country?

seems about right. If you live in central time cost yo about a dime or less haha.

 

[sleepydoc]

We have Net Metering but it used to work better. Now with peak rates having been shifted to 4-9 when solar generation is much lower... or 0, we are selling back the most power when electricity is cheapest.

I think when I first got solar the peak time was something like 1pm to 5pm. My, it's amazing what shifting this a few hours has done, especially when we aren't on DST and solar noon is like 1130am.

Sounds like the utilities game the system to screw the customers.
We're just getting started with solar here, but my understanding is the utilities pay the average daytime rate. What would make sense is to charge/get paid the rate at the time of production, but then, that would be fair, and we can't have that!

 

[thesmokingman]

We have Net Metering but it used to work better. Now with peak rates having been shifted to 4-9 when solar generation is much lower... or 0, we are selling back the most power when electricity is cheapest.

I think when I first got solar the peak time was something like 1pm to 5pm. My, it's amazing what shifting this a few hours has done, especially when we aren't on DST and solar noon is like 1130am.

Do you have batteries? I assume so since you can sell back. Run off batts to compensate for their gouging.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm not on ANY plan here in southern IL being powered by Ameren IP and I pay a flat rate of 10.25 cents per kWh. They just announced a new EV rate and will look into that. But holy moly you folks getting ripped off.

Maybe the best place to own an EV is in Fly Over country?

Yep, flyover country has the blessing and curse of cheap electricity. Both of these are based on what is the cost of the thing you are not buying? The electricity is very cheap versus what the gasoline would cost, so switch the car to electric!! But the flip side of it is about solar panels. You would be spending a lot of upfront cost to replace extremely cheap grid electricity from the utility, so there's not much savings. The payoff time calculations for solar are around one to two decades instead of just a few years like it is for the west coast.

 

[KL_68]

SoCal Edison customer here on the TOU-D-PRIME, winter rates: 4pm-9pm (peak 44c/kWh); off peak all other times @ 18c/kWh.

 

[Falcon73]

Do you have batteries? I assume so since you can sell back. Run off batts to compensate for their gouging.

We don't have batteries for the house but wish we did. I've looked into it but so far it's not making sense. Sunrun won't do it without installing 7 more panels but maybe we should get a formal quote.

 

[Madsen203]

SoCal Edison customer here on the TOU-D-PRIME, winter rates: 4pm-9pm (peak 44c/kWh); off peak all other times @ 18c/kWh.

This only works well
If you have battery back up. 4-9pm—I’d wager 80% of
Your use is during that time excluding the EV charging.

 

[KL_68]

This only works well
If you have battery back up. 4-9pm—I’d wager 80% of
Your use is during that time excluding the EV charging.

80% of my use is during off peak hours, primarily because peak hour is 5 hrs out of 24 (80%). I'm very conscious of not running high electrical appliances btw 4-9pm.

 

[Srad600Volt]

Anyone in California who's using home solar should be aware that the CPUC is considering 1) adding additional taxes to homeowners who produce solar energy and 2) reducing the solar credits we receive from that home generated solar. If this bothers you, you should consider making public or private comments before the upcoming meeting to let them know your thoughts on this "wonderful" <sarcasm> idea.

Some helpful information here: California — Stop the Solar Tax

Be sure to send comments to both the CPUC and Gov. Newsom. Also public comments on the referendum helps as well.

 

[laservet]

I'm not on ANY plan here in southern IL being powered by Ameren IP and I pay a flat rate of 10.25 cents per kWh. They just announced a new EV rate and will look into that. But holy moly you folks getting ripped off.

Maybe the best place to own an EV is in Fly Over country?

In Virginia I pay ~ $0.11 per kWh. They offered a beta tiered plan to 14,000 customers who had expressed interest, I was one, but the gains were small at night, down to $0.09 or $0.07 depending on season, daytime jumped to $0.18 or $0.22 and they wouldn’t give a comparison between the plans until you had been using the tiered plan for one year. No thanks.

However, Va Power did splash that they were big supporters of solar, gave me tho option of paying $0.02 per kWh more and the extra would go to a privately owned solar farm elsewhere in the state. Again, no thanks. And they charged me an extra $106.00 annually for my registration fee because I have an EV.

Thanks to those in California for making me feel better!

 

[csrpenfab]

I'm glad I GTFO of So. CA with my .17/KWh rates with SCE, that went even higher after the baseline. Now in Idaho with .07/KWh with no tiers. Should make charging very affordable when my MYP finally shows up!

 

[240W]

SCE gave me a worse plan (TOU-D-4-9) than the above but we will be on the new Prime rate as of the next reading.

We were paying 0.13 for super off peak but now it's 0.30 for off peak until the conversion is done.

We were on a grandfathered plan (TOU-D-B) but they ended it in December.

Gas is almost $5 a gallon. My wife was paying about $60 a week for gas when we last had an ICE and gas was cheaper then.

SCE did the same thing for us. I called into request Prime and they put me on TOU-D-4-9. They have since allegedly corrected it but could not say when the plan would go into effect. Gonna have fun calling in next month to fix the incorrect billing of this month.

On an unrelated note, I work at The Shops @ MV -- maybe we'll run into each other at one of the two SCs here

Be careful when looking at the numbers, because depending on your usage and generation, TOU 4-9 may be better...

TOU 4-9 has a $0.38 daily charge (daily basic and daily minimum, wtf right?), baseline credit of $0.08/kWh up to baseline allocation and then look at the peak/off peak rates, summer $0.49 peak, $0.30 off peak
TOU PRIME has a $0.40 daily charge, but NO baseline credit, and then the peak/off peak rates, $0.49 peak, $0.20 off peak

Both are worse off than the grandfather plan and the future ones (if NEM3 passes will be even worse, arrggh)