This. I'm 100% satisfied with having purchased EAP. I drive a ton, and EAP alone has made this car infinitely better than any car I've ever owned before.
But EAP and FSD are two separate things (and 2 separate sales points).
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This. I'm 100% satisfied with having purchased EAP. I drive a ton, and EAP alone has made this car infinitely better than any car I've ever owned before.
But EAP and FSD are two separate things (and 2 separate sales points).
Thank you, seriously. Folks like you help make it a better/finished product. As you say, its still in beta. As an engineer involved with commercial and mission-critical products, too risky for me and my family for now.
Can’t help you with FSD but I found a way to minimize nagging. It’s comfortable for me to have my left foot flat on the floorboard, which lifts my knee closer to steering wheel. My arm rests on my thigh and I’m holding the steering wheel at about the seven o clock position. There’s just enough weight that Lucy knows I’m there and doesn’t nag me very often.
Yeah for sure holding the wheel by the knees helps (I'm 6'3), but still it requires a small amount of squeezing the legs it seems for the right amount of resistance to be felt. I've tried all sorts of hand resting positions too...but with the limited space I have to fit in the seat, occasionally I do want to move a bit I guess. Just wish the necessity for the nag would be over with sooner rather than later, but it sounds like that nag is going to be here for quite a while...
Thanks for the suggestion.
I also work in mission critical products (defense industry). And i can say there is no way in hell this would ever make it to a T7-9 level the government expects for use on their hardware.
On the other hand, this is consumer hardware. So is it appropriate for a monitored (by an experienced, informed individual) driving basis? Absolutely. i think autopilot is way safer than a human driving (when used in the appropriate circumstances). and it's more relaxing. So I do so.
Level 5 FSD is worth more than the rest of the car. The price paid now is actually fair for the incremental deltas over EAP - especially with AP3 hardware included in the price.
There are those who paid for FSD back in 2016. Pretty cool those folks get the AP3 hardware as well.
Paying before any feature is ready is ready is giving an interest free loan to Tesla.
It behooves all of us to help Tesla survive. A successful Tesla will honor your battery warranty 7 years from now.
A successful Tesla is going to have an awesome car we will want in 10 years.
Preparing for FSD doesn’t prevent me from helping out any other causes as well. Owners giving other owners *sugar* for helping with deliveries.
There are those who paid for FSD back in 2016. Pretty cool those folks get the AP3 hardware as well.
Paying before any feature is ready is ready is giving an interest free loan to Tesla.
It behooves all of us to help Tesla survive. A successful Tesla will honor your battery warranty 7 years from now.
A successful Tesla is going to have an awesome car we will want in 10 years.
Preparing for FSD doesn’t prevent me from helping out any other causes as well. Owners giving other owners *sugar* for helping with deliveries.
My thinking was basically this.
I'm not expecting FSD to be actually available on cars driving on roads for at least another 5 years.
My expectation is that I will be looking into buying a new Tesla in about 5 years.
Therefore, I chose to not pay for the FSD feature in this Model 3. Instead I'll get it when I buy my next Tesla in 5 years or so.
I'm not expecting FSD to be actually available on cars driving on roads for at least another 5 years.
My expectation is that I will be looking into buying a new Tesla in about 5 years.
Therefore, I chose to not pay for the FSD feature in this Model 3. Instead I'll get it when I buy my next Tesla in 5 years or so.
It seems to me that would be highly misleading / false advertising. The description of FSD that sold me was how they described it being able to just allow you to get in your car, your car would detect your location from your calendar (or your input), and the car would just go. It would nav side streets, stop lights, stop signs, pedestrians, whatever. In other words, exactly what the term “full self driving” would imply.
This is exactly why false advertising laws are on the books in this country, so vendors can’t tell customers one thing and deliver something that’s very clearly less. That seems to be exactly what Tesla is doing, and just saying “we don’t know exactly when we can deliver it yet,” shouldn’t be considered a legal loophole. Vendors shouldn’t be allowed to sell features for products that they can’t deliver within the product’s lifetime
It is pretty clear that it is not legal. But nothing happens if you don’t sue.
But do "FSD" and "purchase" belong in the same sentence anyway?
Isn't the point of FSD that it renders the whole purchase/ownership model obsolete?
(You could hire out your FSD car as a taxi - brings a whole new meaning to the phrase Pimp My Ride
)
I put the FSD feature as the second biggest con job played in 2016.
It's still looking that way today.
Now I did get it when I got my Model 3 because I wanted the more powerful AP3 computer when it's released.
Ultimately it comes down to managing expectations. I wouldn't expect full-self-driving, but I would expect some level of autonomy.
I'm not sure what it will be as ultimately there is no path way towards it. It's like paying for a car that can drive on roads where the roads don't even exists yet.
I hope that it is slowly released with L3 capability on white listed roads. So it would be like an L3 version of super cruise which is L2.
If I don't have some level of truly hands free driving within 2-3 years then I'll be really disappointed.
It's still looking that way today.
Now I did get it when I got my Model 3 because I wanted the more powerful AP3 computer when it's released.
Ultimately it comes down to managing expectations. I wouldn't expect full-self-driving, but I would expect some level of autonomy.
I'm not sure what it will be as ultimately there is no path way towards it. It's like paying for a car that can drive on roads where the roads don't even exists yet.
I hope that it is slowly released with L3 capability on white listed roads. So it would be like an L3 version of super cruise which is L2.
If I don't have some level of truly hands free driving within 2-3 years then I'll be really disappointed.
Ludalicious
Active Member
I was honestly looking at picking it up until now I seen they pulled it.... But then I started thinking.... Ohhh ya it can't even pickup empty trailers. How the heck can it drive itself. One step at a time Tesla... LOL Lets try driving in a straight line without hitting anything first before trying to switch lanes. .... Ya that B great
What you’re implying here honestly feels a bit like victim-blaming. Yes, I honestly expected an American company to have a realistic timeline for delivery if they are advertising a product for sale right now. I don’t work in the auto industry. I, like the vast majority of the public, do not have any special first-hand knowledge of exactly how far along - or how far to go - Tesla’s R&D department is (and I suspect you have no actual clue either, despite your condescension).
So when an American company, bound by American consumer protection laws, advertises a product on their website, yes I understood it isn’t available yet or in the near future. I sure as hell did not - nor SHOULD - expect that it meant the product may NEVER be available in the lifetime of the car.
Companies in America aren’t allowed to scam their customers and then claim as a defense that their customers should’ve known better. What a ridiculous assertion.
Wondering if Musk is going to be overly ambitious on his timelines, wondering if he is going to be late, is wondering if the Pope is Catholic.
Not everyone knows this and they often find out the hard way - which is extremely unfortunate.
Tesla is very hot. Also very crazy. The universe doesn't allow for hot without crazy.
With that said, I don't wish bankruptcy upon Tesla or desire to harm them for being slow.
AP2/2.5 cars have an extension on their life line with AP3 hardware plugin upgrade which is good.
This is what did it for me... and I was also thinking that the V3 computing power expected to be put in my car in the next year or so may make AP itself better beyond explicit FSD features. I don't think it would be good PR for Tesla to state this, but, it seems plausible to me.
What everyone misses is
Man + Machine is greater than man or machine by itself.
The machine doesn’t run loose and can save you in circumstances of distraction or lapse in alertness.
Jonathantuba
Member
I just think FSD has proved a lot more difficult than Tesla and Elon Mask ever thought. There are so many variables, most of all other road users irrational behaviour. I personally can’t see how it can work safely unless all cars on the road were FSD and acted predictably.
And remember a software problem on a smart phone just annoys customer - such a problem on a FSD car kills customers. I think Tesla is right to roll out very slowly for the sake of safety, even if that annoys some customers which have paid for FSD.
Just consider what you have paid as a contribution to R&D to make FSD happen quicker - and enjoy your Tesla as it is now. EAP is amazing in itself. If the nags really annoy, then get an Autopilot buddy, or something such like (but make sure you still remain alert and ready to take over). Tesla I am am sure only has the nags to protect themselves legally.
And remember a software problem on a smart phone just annoys customer - such a problem on a FSD car kills customers. I think Tesla is right to roll out very slowly for the sake of safety, even if that annoys some customers which have paid for FSD.
Just consider what you have paid as a contribution to R&D to make FSD happen quicker - and enjoy your Tesla as it is now. EAP is amazing in itself. If the nags really annoy, then get an Autopilot buddy, or something such like (but make sure you still remain alert and ready to take over). Tesla I am am sure only has the nags to protect themselves legally.
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Again, as I posted earlier, victim-blaming is not the appropriate response to an American business / businessman consistently failing to deliver - or even come close to delivering - a product they are actively selling *now*. This attitude of “you should have known he was a snake oil salesman” is exactly the cover of resigned acceptance that allows Tesla to continue to sell a product they may not actually have any intention of delivering within the lifetime of the cars they’re currently selling with it.
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