Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Droschke]

Not sure what you are saying. Car was rated 265 when I got it. Initially it read 272. Quickly (9 months) down to ~ 250 and no change since.

Sure. I understood your post and I totally agree with it.

I was indirectly referring to certain posters who have called our voltage capping (range loss) normal degradation.

 

[Droschke]

I never said it was the case here, I just said it wasn't suspicious. And I certainly never said you have to come to an agreement in mediation.

But you don't know that

 

[raphy3]

I've heard that the courts essentially mandate, or at least highly encourage, mediation prior to there being a trial to try to reduce the demand on the court system. So it doesn't seem suspicious to me at all.

yeah. I'm sure Tesla's suggestion to go to mediation was altruistic and in line with thinking about the best interests of the court's time.

 

[Guy V]

If Tesla was truthful about it only being "a small number of older cars" they would have fixed it at the beginning of this year and not escalated it to a Class Action or hired outside representation (MoFo) who also happen to be a well known corporate bankruptcy firm. When that news broke I immediately suspected it was going to eventually be every car, and in the months since it's slowly started to look like that was true.

None of us want to see Tesla go down over this - we lose our warranties if they do. They should have - and should be now - tried talking to us before they let it get to the point where we're suing them and the NHTSA is investigating. They're going to lose in the media no matter how it goes, and shareholders will pay the price of Tesla's obstinance.

They can still turn it around. I've said over and over and I still mean it: If Tesla offers us an olive branch we'll take it. I don't think they can afford to repair every battery they need to cover under warranty and when the NHTSA investigation forces them to recall it's going to hurt. But many of us will happily pay them for the opportunity to upgrade to a larger battery, or accept a capped original battery in exchange for the opportunity to upgrade (at cost) our Pre-AP cars to AP, or model 3 owners might choose to accept free FSD or Performance in exchange for an imposed cap. There are many ways Tesla can help offset the problem they've created - many owners need the range they paid for and won't be arm twisted into paying extra just to keep what they already own, but some of us are willing to pay extra for upgrades to help offset their warranty costs. There are a lot of potential upgrades they just won't do that they can offer, and we'll love them for making the offer. BAttery upgrades take 90 seconds and make them thousands of dollars - I will do it and I can't be alone.

We want them to stay afloat and remain a company people aren't afraid to buy from. They should want the same thing, but for some reason they're fighting us and trying to make people afraid of owning their cars. The crazy thing is they still have some time. The NHTSA investigation is just ramping up - right now they're contacting us individually which means it's not a full fledged probe into Tesla yet, they're in the third party data collection phase still. Tesla can still grab this bull by the horns before the bears and the media take notice and start making everyone afraid of OTA downgrades. That's a real possibility thaat will kill new car sales, but it's preventable with some communication.

And that's the problem. Tesla has no communications skills. So they're making things worse.

Long-term they NEED a practical, for both the owner and Tesla, battery replacement/refurbishment program or these half-million mile cars they are touting will come to be seen as 8-year, only as long as the warranty lasts products. Without such a program they are just not going to be competitive in the marketplace, and that will probably kill not only Tesla but the whole EV movement that it has powered.

With our cars suffering batterygate and the leading edge of the fleet approaching that 8-year mark, now is the obvious time to be getting on with that. Elon has always been the man with the brilliant forward-looking plans, so why aren't we starting to hear something about how this is going to be dealt with?

 

[Blu Zap]

I doubt they would remove the not-cap if there is a safety issue--the last thing we all need is a new fire sparked by a burning car.

As an aside, I had friends who needed help evacing and between the capping and throttling, I really questioned if I should offer to help. They were at the edge of my range and I'm not sure they would want to spend a couple of hours camped out at a supercharger while I charged back up. I am bummed I can no longer trust my car like this.

I have to say charging in Marin County this week has been horrible. Not a good time to have reduced range. The Corte Madera SuC was closed since the whole county didn't have power. Richmond SuC was swamped. Monday morning the whole county drove to San Francisco to get food, gas and oh yeah, get a charge. I was lucky and found a City parking lot downtown with a ChargePoint level 2. Yes ICE vehicles need electricity too, to pump gas. But it is really a matter of how far we can go between charges. I miss that 15% Tesla took away from me last May!

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means. Just like an ICE mpg, the range depends on your drive habits (fast off the lights, etc.), tires (some have more road friction thus range impact), weather (cold equals less range) and added weight. I have had my model S 90D since March 2016. My average Wh/mi is 335 (with 40,000+ miles on the car). In the warm weather when I do not have the snow tires on the Wh/mi is lower thus higher range and in the winter Wh/mi higher thus less range. But with an average of 335 Wh/mi my average range is 268.66 miles (90,000/335). So after 3+ years in the summer when I fully charge I get 270-272 mile range and in the winter 245-250 mile range. For me to get the Tesla 294 mile range I was quoted when I purchased the car I would need to use no more than 306.12 Wh/mi. In southwest PA this will never happen but I have gotten near this on some road trips in flatter areas. I have all of the latest updates and as best I can tell (without some fancy and expensive metering and recording devices) well within what I expected. By the way I have never gotten even close to 100% of the MPG estimates for any of my ICE or hybrid-ICE vehicles.

Oh dearie dearie me. It seems after 7000 posts, the fundamental issue is none of us understands the difference between Range and Capping. I wish someone had explained that to me earlier.

Oh, they did.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

[

If Tesla was truthful about it only being "a small number of older cars" they would have fixed it at the beginning of this year and not escalated it to a Class Action or hired outside representation (MoFo) who also happen to be a well known corporate bankruptcy firm. When that news broke I immediately suspected it was going to eventually be every car, and in the months since it's slowly started to look like that was true.[/QUOTE
I have never had any difficulty with the 'small number of older cars' statement. In the main UK forum, which at the time numbered around 5000 owners, batterygate affected cars only represented about 0.5% of the UK forum fleet. But that 5000 owner fleet included both pre and post facelift S, and Model X. As batterygate only seems to affect, some, pre facelift cars, the % figure of the pre facelift fleet is likely to be much higher, probably some way from ‘a small number'. Does anyone have rough numbers of PFL cars built, or a rough comparison of pre and post facelift Model S?

 

[Droschke]

Long-term they NEED a practical, for both the owner and Tesla, battery replacement/refurbishment program or these half-million mile cars they are touting will come to be seen as 8-year, only as long as the warranty lasts products. Without such a program they are just not going to be competitive in the marketplace, and that will probably kill not only Tesla but the whole EV movement that it has powered.

With our cars suffering batterygate and the leading edge of the fleet approaching that 8-year mark, now is the obvious time to be getting on with that. Elon has always been the man with the brilliant forward-looking plans, so why aren't we starting to hear something about how this is going to be dealt with?

They do have a battery replacement/refurbishment program and other parts are readily available. The programs is called buying a whole new car

It's a "disposable cell phone" model, where you "upgrade" every few years for a new one (new car). Of course, that was not our understanding when you and I made that expensive purchase!

 

[Chaserr]

I have never had any difficulty with the 'small number of older cars' statement. In the main UK forum, which at the time numbered around 5000 owners, batterygate affected cars only represented about 0.5% of the UK forum fleet. But that 5000 owner fleet included both pre and post facelift S, and Model X. As batterygate only seems to affect, some, pre facelift cars, the % figure of the pre facelift fleet is likely to be much higher, probably some way from ‘a small number'. Does anyone have rough numbers of PFL cars built, or a rough comparison of pre and post facelift Model S?

It's USA-only but this should give you a rough estimate of the production rate increases:

Monthly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard: Historical Charts - 2018 and earlier by year

Monthly Plug-In Report Card Archive - 2019 and earlier by month

 

[jkennebeck]

Hypothetical here:

Lets say tomorrow Tesla uncaps all of our cars and we're back to good range.

Is the super slow not-so-supercharging network still viable? Are our cars no longer capable of making decent time on road trips? Is this part of the situation ever going to be resolved?

I was thinking of a summer trip next year from VA to Wisconsin, but if I'm not getting faster charging it wouldn't be possible.

Just wondering what others think. Time to sell the car and find something more reliable for long distance drives?

 

[Sumpi]

Does anyone in this forum state that they have a Model S from 2012 to 2015 and not have either charging restrictions or capping?

 

[Chaserr]

I think the cap and the slowed charging are related by the same underlying cause. They came too close together to be coincidental, especially with Tesla touting "faster supercharging!" right when they had to slow us down so I think both took them by surprise.

If they uncap one tomorrow, they uncap the other. I don't think they will willingly uncap either, ever. They're hoping for mediation to lose this class action suit as quietly as possible right now.

 

[tomas]

Does anyone in this forum state that they have a Model S from 2012 to 2015 and not have either charging restrictions or capping?

Yes. 2012 P85. I have A battery, so have always had 90 kW charging limit. But other than that, no restrictions or capping that I know of. I don’t supercharge often enough to have a lot of data points on that.

 

[Chaserr]

85-A battery should charge as much as 3 times quicker than we can now.

 

[Sumpi]

I think the cap and the slowed charging are related by the same underlying cause. They came too close together to be coincidental, especially with Tesla touting "faster supercharging!" right when they had to slow us down so I think both took them by surprise.

If they uncap one tomorrow, they uncap the other. I don't think they will willingly uncap either, ever. They're hoping for mediation to lose this class action suit as quietly as possible right now.

So the next question is is it 62000 with restrictions or 100?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

[

Oops. Fat finger trouble again. Ignore me. It’s a sound Policy.

 

[tomas]

85-A battery should charge as much as 3 times quicker than we can now.

Well I’m sure I’m over 50. As I posted before, wonder if ANY A batteries affected, or is it possible that, ironically, the SC cap we were so worked up about has immunized us from this malady?

 

[omarsultan]

Wondering if I can get a deal on an "A" pack.....

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Hypothetical here:

Lets say tomorrow Tesla uncaps all of our cars and we're back to good range.

Is the super slow not-so-supercharging network still viable? Are our cars no longer capable of making decent time on road trips? Is this part of the situation ever going to be resolved?

I was thinking of a summer trip next year from VA to Wisconsin, but if I'm not getting faster charging it wouldn't be possible.

Just wondering what others think. Time to sell the car and find something more reliable for long distance drives?

Exactly my thoughts. Fortunately my chargegate restriction is not severe; only about a 10kW reduction. Irritating more than anything. The lack of Range makes longer trips more of a challenge as I now have less than 200 miles in the tank. At my average consumption of 328 Wh/mi, I would struggle to get 170 miles from my capped 55 kWhs. If I factor in a buffer for wind, rain, roadworks etc, I’m looking at around 150 miles. That’s less than the distance between some Superchargers in Europe. My planned drive to Portugal recently had to be cancelled, as the forecast build of new Supercharger sites in mid/southern Spain came under Tesla Soonrather than the annually extended 2018, oops sorry 2019, oops sorry, 2020 end of year.

But if I had to spend 1.5 to 2 hours charging at CHAdeMO speeds, I would have to sell the car. It just doesn’t do what I need it to. That’s exactly why I bought a 70 not the cheaper 60.

 

[jkennebeck]

I'm searching on the CPO's on the Tesla site and seeing some P85D's that they are advertising the EPA rated mileage.
I'm requesting callbacks on these to ask what the ACTUAL 100% current mileage is.
Just for fun.