Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[DJRas]

I also liked this passage from the 10-Q:

Page 61:"Our vehicles and energy storage products use lithium-ion battery cells that store large amounts of energy, and any incidents in which such energy is released unexpectedly could negatively impact our operations.
The battery packs that we produce make use of lithium-ion cells. On rare occasions, lithium-ion cells can rapidly release the energy they contain by venting smoke and flames in a manner that can ignite nearby materials as well as other lithium-ion cells. While we have designed the battery pack to passively contain any single cell’s release of energy without spreading to neighboring cells, there can be no assurance that a field or testing failure of our vehicles or other battery packs that we produce will not occur, which could subject us to lawsuits, product recalls or redesign efforts, all of which would be time consuming and expensive. In addition, we store and recycle a significant number of lithium-ion cells at our facilities and are producing high volumes of cells and battery modules and packs at
Gigafactory 1. Any mishandling of battery cells may cause disruption to the operation of our facilities. While we have implemented safety procedures related to the handling of the cells, there can be no assurance that a safety issue or fire related to the cells would not disrupt our operations. Such disruptions or issues could negatively affect our brand and harm our business, prospects, financial condition and operating results."

 

[lightningltd]

I haven't posted in some time but I charged my S today and for the first time in two months I looked at the rated Miles (I have it set to % on the car). its 208 rated at 90% WTF!!! - Two months ago it was 226. I'm on V10 but didn't realize they were now sucking the life out of my S. P85+ 68,000 miles

Sorry, but welcome to the class action.

 

[lightningltd]

Installed 2019.32.12.8 the day it was released (was not even on TeslaFi yet).
No noticeable change in regards ro batterygate or chargegate.
After the update, got blank release notes. Had to reboot to see them. This shows that they are no longer doing a full reboot after updates anymore.
The new features:
Defrost mode. Like it. It was 28 degrees this morning, and it worked great.
Lucky and food icon: WTH??? Who in the HELL asked for this useless feature? The first place the food button tried to send me was a restaurant that was red-tagged months ago and still closed for health violations. Totally useless feature.
Spotify.. Meh Don't care. I like Slacker.
Browser: Just as useless as ever. They fixed nothing for the MCUv1.
Saving settings on the fly to profiles... Plain LUNACY! If I turn the fog lights on or off, it saves instantly. Same with the traffic icon on the map. Its bad enough that they overdo the logs to the point of bricking MCU, but now MORE useless writes? Are we so lazy that we cannot tap on the profile and hit save if we want the settings to be saved?

What they need to do is to have the car only download the relevant modules for the hardware installed on that car. Common things go to all, etc. I do not need AP code if I have no AP Waste of NVRAM and writes.

They can also make it so if you plug in a USB stick and have a directory called tesla-cache, that it would use that for map cache storage as well as logs. That would stop the limited write issue or slow it down a LOT.

Also, I say revert those who wish to (with MCUv1) to firmware version 8.x (and add in the fart mode and a couple other new features we actually like). Just update the stupid browser so it works on modern websites. IMHO for ME, 8.x was the most stable and fastest.

 

[tomas]

Did my first 100% charge on my 2012 S85 since 2019.32...

252 miles. Same as it has been for about 5 years.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone with an "A" battery experienced this range issue?

#ABatterySliverLining?

 

[Az_Rael]

Minor update from your friendly Model 3 (and as yet unaffected S) owner: Got an EVTV CAN/OBDII adapter cable on order plus downloaded ScanMyTesla. Hopefully these will be enough to read the cell voltages (not sure what 3 data ScanMyTesla has right now)

Should be an interesting experiment at least.

 

[Droschke]

Installed 2019.32.12.8 the day it was released ... Saving settings on the fly to profiles... Plain LUNACY! If I turn the fog lights on or off, it saves instantly...

Yup, putting the car in neutral while parked also triggers a profile save. Not sure why.

 

[ran349]

I'm in Canada it's about 17C outside and I wasn't supercharging just AC at 32amps.

It'll be interesting to see what cell temperature is when AC charging when it's -10C or colder. In my experience car will spend 30 minutes to an hour just warming the battery.

Here are my numbers at 100%. About 4.19v. I'm guessing this shows model 3 recent degradation possibly due to software change is not a voltage cap.View attachment 471255

Do you have rated miles or km for that 100% charge?

 

[APD1080]

Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means. Just like an ICE mpg, the range depends on your drive habits (fast off the lights, etc.), tires (some have more road friction thus range impact), weather (cold equals less range) and added weight. I have had my model S 90D since March 2016. My average Wh/mi is 335 (with 40,000+ miles on the car). In the warm weather when I do not have the snow tires on the Wh/mi is lower thus higher range and in the winter Wh/mi higher thus less range. But with an average of 335 Wh/mi my average range is 268.66 miles (90,000/335). So after 3+ years in the summer when I fully charge I get 270-272 mile range and in the winter 245-250 mile range. For me to get the Tesla 294 mile range I was quoted when I purchased the car I would need to use no more than 306.12 Wh/mi. In southwest PA this will never happen but I have gotten near this on some road trips in flatter areas. I have all of the latest updates and as best I can tell (without some fancy and expensive metering and recording devices) well within what I expected. By the way I have never gotten even close to 100% of the MPG estimates for any of my ICE or hybrid-ICE vehicles.

 

[bijan]

Do you have rated miles or km for that 100% charge?

It was either 474km or 475km so down about 5%.

 

[Az_Rael]

New Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means.

Everyone here is referring to "rated range" which is determined based on the wh/mile EPA rated constant and displayed on the IC when you have it set to "rated" vs ideal.

That particular range is not based on weather or driving habits.

 

[bijan]

Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means. Just like an ICE mpg, the range depends on your drive habits (fast off the lights, etc.), tires (some have more road friction thus range impact), weather (cold equals less range) and added weight. I have had my model S 90D since March 2016. My average Wh/mi is 335 (with 40,000+ miles on the car). In the warm weather when I do not have the snow tires on the Wh/mi is lower thus higher range and in the winter Wh/mi higher thus less range. But with an average of 335 Wh/mi my average range is 268.66 miles (90,000/335). So after 3+ years in the summer when I fully charge I get 270-272 mile range and in the winter 245-250 mile range. For me to get the Tesla 294 mile range I was quoted when I purchased the car I would need to use no more than 306.12 Wh/mi. In southwest PA this will never happen but I have gotten near this on some road trips in flatter areas. I have all of the latest updates and as best I can tell (without some fancy and expensive metering and recording devices) well within what I expected. By the way I have never gotten even close to 100% of the MPG estimates for any of my ICE or hybrid-ICE vehicles.

No, just no.

In winter if you leave the car sitting in the cold the rated miles will drop. But teslafi and I measure the rated miles exactly when charging finishes and then there is no drop due to temperature. My whole first winter even down to -20C I would get 100% as much as expected the whole winter as measured the moment charging finished. Also no adjustment for my driving style.

Then starting in June of this year my rated range dropped 9% and is still down about 5.5%.

Asked Tesla and they blamed it on the warm weather!

Also according to scan my Tesla my nominal pack capacity in kwh is now 72.1 when a new car will have a value of 76kwh. How does warm weather and/or my driving style reduce the pack capacity estimate?

The one thing that might be possible is that rated miles is not rated miles anymore on the model 3. And now they consider driving style or phantom drain or some other factor. But for me from October 2018 when I got the car until June 2018 when my range started dropping the rated miles was pretty much 100% of what was expected no matter what regardless of cold or hammering the accelerator. Then something changed this summer.

 

[Droschke]

Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means. Just like an ICE mpg, the range depends on your drive habits (fast off the lights, etc.), tires (some have more road friction thus range impact), weather (cold equals less range) and added weight. I have had my model S 90D since March 2016. My average Wh/mi is 335 (with 40,000+ miles on the car). In the warm weather when I do not have the snow tires on the Wh/mi is lower thus higher range and in the winter Wh/mi higher thus less range. But with an average of 335 Wh/mi my average range is 268.66 miles (90,000/335). So after 3+ years in the summer when I fully charge I get 270-272 mile range and in the winter 245-250 mile range. For me to get the Tesla 294 mile range I was quoted when I purchased the car I would need to use no more than 306.12 Wh/mi. In southwest PA this will never happen but I have gotten near this on some road trips in flatter areas. I have all of the latest updates and as best I can tell (without some fancy and expensive metering and recording devices) well within what I expected. By the way I have never gotten even close to 100% of the MPG estimates for any of my ICE or hybrid-ICE vehicles.

While your post provides information about consumption and efficiency, it has nothing to do whatsoever with the topic of this thread.

 

[lightningltd]

Note sure what everyone thinks the Tesla mileage range really means. Just like an ICE mpg, the range depends on your drive habits (fast off the lights, etc.), tires (some have more road friction thus range impact), weather (cold equals less range) and added weight. I have had my model S 90D since March 2016. My average Wh/mi is 335 (with 40,000+ miles on the car). In the warm weather when I do not have the snow tires on the Wh/mi is lower thus higher range and in the winter Wh/mi higher thus less range. But with an average of 335 Wh/mi my average range is 268.66 miles (90,000/335). So after 3+ years in the summer when I fully charge I get 270-272 mile range and in the winter 245-250 mile range. For me to get the Tesla 294 mile range I was quoted when I purchased the car I would need to use no more than 306.12 Wh/mi. In southwest PA this will never happen but I have gotten near this on some road trips in flatter areas. I have all of the latest updates and as best I can tell (without some fancy and expensive metering and recording devices) well within what I expected. By the way I have never gotten even close to 100% of the MPG estimates for any of my ICE or hybrid-ICE vehicles.

Please read the thread. It has nothing to do with that. it is RATED range, which is a constant. Tesla reduced the AMOUNT of power that the pack can hold by lowering the VOLTAGE the battery will take. I lost over 16% of my POWER and range and acceleration OVERNIGHT.

 

[Droschke]

Did my first 100% charge on my 2012 S85 since 2019.32...

252 miles. Same as it has been for about 5 years.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone with an "A" battery experienced this range issue?

#ABatterySliverLining?

252 miles. Same as it has been for about 5 years.

In other words, no "normal" degradation in 5 years. The "30_miles_loss_overnight_is_normal_degradation" crowd have a problem with that

 

[Droschke]

I lost over 16% of my POWER and range and acceleration

Overnight.

 

[raphy3]

The mediation suggestion from Tesla sounds suspicious to me. Like scorpion-trapped-in-a-corner or wounded-honey-badger suspicious.

Well, as long as they resolve battery safety issues with battery replacements we should be ok.

 

[MP3Mike]

The mediation suggestion from Tesla sounds suspicious to me. Like scorpion-trapped-in-a-corner or wounded-honey-badger suspicious.

Well, as long as they resolve battery safety issues with battery replacements we should be ok.

I've heard that the courts essentially mandate, or at least highly encourage, mediation prior to there being a trial to try to reduce the demand on the court system. So it doesn't seem suspicious to me at all.

 

[Droschke]

I've heard that the courts essentially mandate, or at least highly encourage, mediation prior to there being a trial to try to reduce the demand on the court system. So it doesn't seem suspicious to me at all.

But you don't know that is the case here.

"While courts can mandate that certain cases go to mediation, the process remains "voluntary" in that the parties are not required to come to agreement."

Mediation

 

[tomas]

In other words, no "normal" degradation in 5 years. The "30_miles_loss_overnight_is_normal_degradation" crowd have a problem with that

Not sure what you are saying. Car was rated 265 when I got it. Initially it read 272. Quickly (9 months) down to ~ 250 and no change since.

 

[MP3Mike]

But you don't know that is the case here.

"While courts can mandate that certain cases go to mediation, the process remains "voluntary" in that the parties are not required to come to agreement."

Mediation

I never said it was the case here, I just said it wasn't suspicious. And I certainly never said you have to come to an agreement in mediation.