Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[sorka]

How many do you guys think are affected? I would guess between 50-100 cars.

Can someone do a poll in the main S forum? Please point to this thread if they want to discuss anything but keep that thread completely clean and politely ask every effected or not to vote in. Maybe poll could be A) No loss with 16.2 update, B) to <last letter> in 5% increments up to say 30%.

It will still be biased because you'll likely get affected owners more likely to vote but it will be more balanced than asking here since the main people here who are affected are all still here in this thread.

 

[tga]

Has 2019.24.4 made a difference? I've had a software update notification!

I just installed it; no mention of it in the 2019.24.4 release notes. Someone impacted will have to take the plunge.

 

[lightningltd]

I just installed it; no mention of it in the 2019.24.4 release notes. Someone impacted will have to take the plunge.

I will try it after work and let you know.

 

[BigNick]

The 2.4% figure would be correct if Vmin was 0.0V, but it’s not. My research has shown that Vnom is 3.66V and Vmax (when the car registers as 100% full) is 4.2V. I have not been able to establish what Vmin (when the car registers as 0% or empty) is. But if Vnom is 3.66, then Vmin is more likely to be around the 3.0V mark. If so, a 0.1V drop from 4.2V is much larger in % terms.

I don’t know exactly what Vmin corresponds to but I have a TM-Spy screenshot from when my battery was at 0% and I coasted into a Supercharger parking lot.

 

[DJRas]

What will really get it picked up is if a judge declares a class with enough plaintiffs coming forward.

That is also in process on my part

 

[DJRas]

How many do you guys think are affected? I would guess between 50-100 cars.

I would guess 4-5% and probably only 1-2 percent are on here.
So... 4,000 to 5,000 worldwide.

 

[DJRas]

Sue or request arbitration. That graph is pretty compelling and appalling. In addition, it would probably help tremendously if you make a trip that you normally used to make and can't now, run out of battery and get towed. If you have Teslafi showing that those trips had been made and how much range you had left vs you can't even do it now without actually dying on the side of the road, it would be even better. I'm so glad that I have hundreds of trips logged on teslafi. As soon as I'm forced with v9, if I have a similarly large drop as some you have, I will be seeking legal remedies immediately.

I have requested arbitration with NCDS. They denied claim pointing out the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla". Appellate process started. Suit to follow.
I have thousands of trips on Teslafi.
I should have a trip to LA that was done in April and again last week. Last week i HAD TO stop at SuC or possibly not make it home.

 

[gmo43]

I have requested arbitration with NCDS. They denied claim pointing out the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla". Appellate process started. Suit to follow.
I have thousands of trips on Teslafi.
I should have a trip to LA that was done in April and again last week. Last week i HAD TO stop at SuC or possibly not make it home.

What year is your car and battery size?


Anyone else been denied or have heard back from NCDS??

 

[sorka]

I have requested arbitration with NCDS. They denied claim pointing out the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla".

WTF? Why wouldn't they just say that about everything? That makes no sense at all. Didn't someone else on this thread get their case accepted with NCDS?

 

[DJRas]

What year is your car and battery size?


Anyone else been denied or have heard back from NCDS??

2014 S 85 138,000 miles now.
217 max rated range 60 2 kWh Usable

 

[DJRas]

WTF? Why wouldn't they just say that about everything? That makes no sense at all. Didn't someone else on this thread get their case accepted with NCDS?

Agreed... which is part of the basis for appeal the 3 arbiter panel.
Yes, someone else does report a successful NCDS case . But no hearing yet.

 

[gmo43]

2014 S 85 138,000 miles now.
217 max rated range 60 2 kWh Usable

Odd that it was denied. Any idea why?

 

[mjmiron]

Has anyone thought about making a YouTube video and posting it online about the issues we are having?

Getting the word out may help especially if one of the affected owners can post a video on Twitter, you tube and online stating simply Tesla Battery Issues. If their is no class action yet this may be a way to get Tesla attention they won’t want the negative press.

 

[fbitz777]

2014 S 85 138,000 miles now.
217 max rated range 60 2 kWh Usable

SO now you have to drive at 277wh/mi to achieve that 217 miles (lower than original rated of 295wh/mi)?
Not only did you loose rated miles but you now need to drive slower to even achieve that lower range! I am not sure why your max range is not 60.2/.295 or 204miles.

Same has happened to me on my X75D and no one else seem to be concerned....I drive at rated consumption and I don't make it on top of the fact I lost range after update.

The strange thing is that if you display the trip graph you usually end up quite close to the predicted trip percentage at arrival (always within 1 percent for me)

 

[Droschke]

I have requested arbitration with NCDS. They denied claim pointing out the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla"

That's weird. I recall @faughtz saying his case was accepted, here.

 

[Droschke]

I have requested arbitration with NCDS. They denied claim pointing out the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla".

If the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla", then what's to arbitrate?

 

[egn1]

The following image shows NCA cell voltage on low-current charging:

Source

So 4,1 V during charging means approximately 90 % SOC.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I don’t know exactly what Vmin corresponds to but I have a TM-Spy screenshot from when my battery was at 0% and I coasted into a Supercharger parking lot.
View attachment 433393

Wow that’s quite a spread.

 

[bhzmark]

I posted the actual text of the warranty above. The relevant provision is:

Note that the vehicle’s range estimates are an imperfect measure of Battery capacity because they are affected by additional factors separate from Battery capacity. The measurement method used to determine Battery capacity, and the decision of whether to repair, replace, or provide reconditioned or remanufactured parts, and the condition of any such replaced, reconditioned or re-manufactured parts, are at the sole discretion of Tesla.​

In other words, it isn't that everything in the warranty is at the sole discretion of Tesla, but the method of battery capacity and related range and degradation calculations are at Tesla's discretion. That is a simple plain term of the warranty there for anyone who bothers to read it. NCDS read it.

It would be better if the S/X warranty had a more specific degradation standard like the model 3, but it doesn't.

WTF? Why wouldn't they just say that about everything? That makes no sense at all. Didn't someone else on this thread get their case accepted with NCDS?

Odd that it was denied. Any idea why?

If the warranty is "at the discretion of Tesla", then what's to arbitrate?

 

[Droschke]

In other words, it isn't that everything in the warranty is at the sole discretion of Tesla, but the method of battery capacity and related range and degradation calculations are at Tesla's discretion.

Great, but isn't "the method of battery capacity and related range and degradation calculations" the topic which needs to be looked at during the arbitration meeting? The case was not even accepted for @DJRas.

How about this? (I reworded it a bit for ya in bold):

The measurement method used to determine Battery capacity, and the decision of whether to repair, replace, or provide reconditioned or remanufactured parts, and the condition of any such replaced, reconditioned or re-manufactured parts, are solely based on the financial health of Tesla.