Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[DJRas]

They can still charge to 100% with AC charging, with little (if any) impact in timing. My supercharging speeds have been reduced, but I can still charge normally on A/C to 4.2V @ 100%.

Charging to 100% on AC with HPWC is also slowed. Once you hit 90% the kW drops to the low 20s, 95% it is in low teens and at 99% it is only charging at 2 kW. At least for those of us affected by chargegate. So, it will take 90 minutes at home for the last 10%.

 

[tga]

Charging to 100% on AC with HPWC is also slowed. Once you hit 90% the kW drops to the low 20s, 95% it is in low teens and at 99% it is only charging at 2 kW. At least for those of us affected by chargegate. So, it will take 90 minutes at home for the last 10%.

I stand corrected (on AC times). That would make sense, as I've seen some posts that imply supercharging at > 90% is slower than AC charging at the same SOC, which doesn't make any sense. If the battery can only take, say, 12 kW at 95%, it doesn't matter if that 12kW is delivered by the onboard chargers or offboard chargers at a Supercharger.

I have dual chargers, but not an 80A supply. The next time I am at my parents, I will charge on their 80A HPWC from 90%->100% before leaving to see what happens.

 

[Jlwine]

I keep seeing people make posts as if this only effect 85 kWh batteries. As I previously said,my 75 kWh battery in my July 2016 build Model S has the exact same issues. Surely, I am not the only 75 kWh battery owner who has this issue??

 

[Keshk]

I keep seeing people make posts as if this only effect 85 kWh batteries. As I previously said,my 75 kWh battery in my July 2016 build Model S has the exact same issues. Surely, I am not the only 75 kWh battery owner who has this issue??

No, you are not the only one. I have 70KWH build april 2016 same problem

 

[Ferrycraigs]

I keep seeing people make posts as if this only effect 85 kWh batteries. As I previously said,my 75 kWh battery in my July 2016 build Model S has the exact same issues. Surely, I am not the only 75 kWh battery owner who has this issue??

Nope I have a 2016 S70, affected by batterygate. Batterygate seems to only affect pre facelift cars with 60, 70 or 85 kWh batteries. It does not affect pre facelift 90 batteries.

Chargegate seems to affect almost all models pre and post facelift.

 

[Muffinman]

Actually, SOC in percent tracks directly to the rated range. Rated range DOES NOT vary by how you drive or any other consideration.
SOC percent = Usable Remaining kWh divided by Usable Full Pack.
SOC Rated Range = Usable Remaining kWh dividend by a constant (for all RWD cars that is 0.276)
So, percent work like a 100% to 0% gas gauge. Rated Range works like a higher precision gas gauge in whole miles remaining.

How you drive WILL affect your actual range. This will show up by only getting 7 miles instead of ten if you are a lead foot (ie normal Tesla driver).

You are missing the point and your reply does not fit the topic of my post. I do not discuss driving pattern or actual range - or how that is affected in any way. Also, I did not write that range display would vary by how you drive - on the contrary you can see me mentioning consumption constant for the car. Constant is, well, constant.

Percentage display will not give you any information on how much energy the battery contains at any soc as it does not take into consideration the battery capacity. Further, It does not track directly to the rated range as range at a specific soc will drop over time as the battery degrades. Sure you kan switch back and forth at a given time and think it would, but compare your range @ ie 50% now and a year from now. Or three years. Percentage display will not indicate that your battery has degraded, but range display will.

 

[Ferrycraigs]

Percentage display will not give you any information on how much energy the battery contains at any soc as it does not take into consideration the battery capacity.

I thought % display does exactly that. It gives a % of how much of the battery capacity is left in the battery.

I don’t use 'miles' as the miles it displays and the miles I drive are different miles. If I want a reasonably accurate assessment of Range remaining, I use the Projected Range in the Energy Screen.

I use % a bit like a fuel gauge. Full, 3/4 full, half empty, 1/4 Full and wake up it needs topping up. That system has worked pretty well for the past 40 years driving, and seems to work, for me, just fine now.

Lest I get stabbed, I am not saying % is better, or worse, just that I, me, myself, prefer it.

And I agree it’s not very good at highlighting degradation. Using Rated Range will work, as long as Tesla doesn’t change the Rated Range algorithm, again!

 

[Guillaume]

Does anyone know the model of the MS that caught fire in Germany?

Don't know the exact model, but the owner stated the following on Facebook (rough translation via Google Translate):

Unfortunately my Tesla Model S burned out too! Worst of all, the support of Tesla (not available) is really disappointing! I was such a big fan of Tesla and the car! That's over .... I was left alone with disposal and everything else! Must settle everything about the lawyer ....

Nobody could tell me anything about waste disposal! On the contrary, I was told a wrong recycling company which you can not use as a private person! I had to take care of the transport as it was a transport with dangerous goods!
No one knew what to do with it, and that rose up the custody and towing costs! Tesla doesn't worry about anything.
However, thank God there is an EU regulation requiring manufacturers to take their batteries back ....

Then I asked him how the fire happened and to which SoC the battery was charged at the time of the accident.
His answer:

I went on vacation, parked the car at the meeting point (battery was about 3/4 full)! Unfortunately, the cause of the fire can not be reconstructed, but I strongly assume a technical defect.

Source: TESLA Enthusiasten D-A-CH

 

[MP3Mike]

I thought % display does exactly that. It gives a % of how much of the battery capacity is left in the battery.

What he is pointing out is that the % display hides degradation and capping, while the miles display doesn't. So in that sense the miles display does give you more information. i.e. if you are looking at a Tesla charged to 100% you have no idea if the car is a 40, 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, or 100; or the state of health of the battery.

 

[Droschke]

Don't know the exact model, but the owner stated the following on Facebook (rough translation via Google Translate):



Then I asked him how the fire happened and to which SoC the battery was charged at the time of the accident.
His answer:



Source: TESLA Enthusiasten D-A-CH

If true, what that owner is saying is very concerning.

 

[lightningltd]

So, I just found this about the fire in SF on May 3, 2019: (Thanks Sean!)

Tesla catches fire inside garage of San Francisco home

Posting this here partly for posterity, partly to seek advice from the Tesla enthusiast
community, since the company's response up to this point has left something to be
desired. I can give more context as needed, but the gist is, I drove my vehicle - a relatively
well maintained 2014 Model S with about 47k miles on it - from LA to SF on Wednesday
and parked it in my friend's garage, where it stayed undisturbed for approximately 28
hours until it apparently spontaneously combusted. (I was staying in a hotel downtown,
so didn't find out it was a total loss until this morning.) Importantly, it was powered off,
and unplugged - these friends don't own any EVs and I typically only charge at home or at
superchargers along the way, since I was one of the lucky ones with free charging for life.
Guess that's one way to cut that perk short...
Anyway, I'm very lucky my friends woke up when they heard a boom and smelled smoke,
and one of them grabbed a fire extinguisher and did a good job quelling the flames until
the fire department arrived and took over. There's some damage to the garage - the
concrete under the car is scorched and broken - but thankfully the house itself is fine, as
are all the people in it.
And now I get to drive a rented Nissan south tomorrow, because Tesla wouldn't provide
me a loaner, and no one wants to talk to me about replacing the vehicle even though
that's my main concern. I can't really afford to be out a $64k investment that I expected to
last for another five to ten years minimum, but I guess we'll see what happens when my
insurance and the Palo Alto office finish fighting over the remains.

Was your care one of then that had either or both:
Batterygate (reduced capacity and range)?
ChargeGate (Reduced charging speed at superchargers)?

 

[Ferrycraigs]

What he is pointing out is that the % display hides degradation and capping, while the miles display doesn't. So in that sense the miles display does give you more information. i.e. if you are looking at a Tesla charged to 100% you have no idea if the car is a 40, 60, 70, 75, 85, 90, or 100; or the state of health of the battery.

Well I did say it doesn’t give any indication of degradation.

And I know, and I think most owners would know, if they own a 40, 60, 70, 75, 85, 90 or 100 kWh battery.

Well that is until Tesla get their stinking, unwelcome hands on it!

 

[boywonder]

Then I asked him how the fire happened and to which SoC the battery was charged at the time of the accident

Thanks for this extra information.

Is there any chance that you could ask the owner which model he owned and whether they received the BMS software cap?

Btw, having your car burn up is a nightmare - I was reading an article about an owner arguing with Mercedes recently over who would pick up the bill for their car which was destroyed by fire.

Very similar story to the one above which this unfortunate owner reported.

 

[Droschke]

Thanks for this extra information.

Is there any chance that you could ask the owner which model he owned and whether they received the BMS software cap?

Btw, having your car burn up is a nightmare - I was reading an article about an owner arguing with Mercedes recently over who would pick up the bill for their car which was destroyed by fire.

Very similar story to the one above which this unfortunate owner reported.

The insurance company has no role in it?

 

[lightningltd]

The insurance company has no role in it?

Depends on the company. Some have exclusions for what they determine as 'manufacturer covered defects'. Luckily mine does not in case this happens to my neutered S85

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla can't afford to let a case like that get fought publicly in the public court system. They have always supplied a loaner car while they prepared a replacement car for the owner - even that one where the guy shot his car! I remember it because Tesla made a point of taking back the loaner and cancelling his new car order when they fund the bullet in his burned pack. I can imagine they would want to fight home damage from garage fires caused by them not recalling these batteries, but they cover the car per their warranty unless they can't find an excuse like a bullet.

 

[Droschke]

Depends on the company. Some have exclusions for what they determine as 'manufacturer covered defects'. Luckily mine does not in case this happens to my neutered S85

Thanks. Not a pleasant question to ask my insurer

 

[Droschke]

Tesla can't afford to let a case like that get fought publicly in the public court system. They have always supplied a loaner car while they prepared a replacement car for the owner - even that one where the guy shot his car! I remember it because Tesla made a point of taking back the loaner and cancelling his new car order when they fund the bullet in his burned pack. I can imagine they would want to fight home damage from garage fires caused by them not recalling these batteries, but they cover the car per their warranty unless they can't find an excuse like a bullet.

I feel much better now since I always keep my car in my garage

 

[DJRas]

Thanks. Not a pleasant question to ask my insurer

The SF fire owner is still an ongoing case. No resolution. No new car. They even accused the owner or their frieds of arson.

 

[DJRas]

Was your care one of then that had either or both:
Batterygate (reduced capacity and range)?
ChargeGate (Reduced charging speed at superchargers)?

My car is affected by both. The SF fire happen May 3, 2019 before the battergate update on May 15.