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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Guy V
Member
You can start with the one I replied to:
"Don't buy into the nonsense that some people are trying to promote."
But your entire body of work is self-expository. You post NOTHING constructive to this problem that concerns the owners on this thread who are experiencing it.
You dislike certain theories attempting to explain the circumstance, but do not refute them. That would require you to disprove any of their underlying suppositions, but you do not. That would at least be useful as they could be reconsidered and revised to fit your new evidence, which could lead to progress. You instead label them nonsense.
Neither do you propose any alternative theory to fit the available facts. You claim to seek the truth but do nothing to pursue it from Tesla who is suppressing it. You do nothing to motivate Tesla to remedy the problem they created but instead attack the victims while purporting to seek their satisfaction.
Your participation here appears to be completely contrary to your stated purposes.
Not trying to be funny, though it may sound like it, but since this is a very practical advice, are we talking about 80% of total battery capacity, or capped capacity? To be on the safe side, we could just say current capacity, but that would mean 70% of original capacity...Yet another effect of batterygate
I have a feeling this car will eventually turn into "charge it only right before you need to go somewhere"
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@mymagiccarpet,
If I charge to 80% or more of my capped battery my cooling pumps run for hours. Two things happen:
- That cools my presumably heated and unsafe battery
- That also lowers my SoC because the fans run for a long time to bring the pack to a safe SoC
The 80% of my capped battery, at best, is about 70% of my pre-capped capacity. So, Tesla believes the SoC of my battery pack is unstable/unsafe if it's more than 70% of Pre-capped capacity. I've chosen to charge to only 50% (of capped capacity) for sometimes now.
If I charge to 80% or more of my capped battery my cooling pumps run for hours. Two things happen:
- That cools my presumably heated and unsafe battery
- That also lowers my SoC because the fans run for a long time to bring the pack to a safe SoC
The 80% of my capped battery, at best, is about 70% of my pre-capped capacity. So, Tesla believes the SoC of my battery pack is unstable/unsafe if it's more than 70% of Pre-capped capacity. I've chosen to charge to only 50% (of capped capacity) for sometimes now.
Yes, when this whole drawn out Perry Mason episode started and Chaserr first commented on treating his car as a potential combustion source I considered it as well. Being uncapped, thought I would wait to see if it became capped, since we didn't really have a clear understanding of why Tesla made the change.
The timing of the capping was certainly suspicious, but we struggled to connect all the dots. Over time I tired of tracking the state of my wife's car and the issue left my mind. A couple more fires and a sound theory that connects the dots has reopened my eyes. It doesn't mean I don't believe there could be another explanation; I've seen way too many amazing software bugs turn out to be for a totally different cause than suspected. But I decided waiting for a garage fire to penetrate far enough into the house to set of alarms would be dereliction of my duty to my family.
This weekend I installed two Z-Wave smoke detectors, one inside, and one just outside her garage (in the house), along with some automation to announce the source, so no one mistakenly heads in that direction.
Interestingly I only charge to 65% for the same reason as Droschke. It just burns anything more off, making a howling sound and heating up the garage. It definitely did that when I knew it was uncapped.
I don't even know if the car is still uncapped. It makes me angry just thinking about checking. The lack of communication we've often discussed is enough to keep me away from another Tesla as well.
I deal with customer escalations almost every day. Sometimes a problem resolution results in a loss of performance. It sucks to be that messenger, but I would never consider not telling a customer, both for my personal character and my company's good will. If the customer balks I'm fortunate it's above my pay grade to resolve, but in the end we either make it right or knowingly lose a customer who we were at least up front with.
I have no doubt that the EoCV reduction (aka capping) is to mitigate fire risk. Nevertheless, the risk is still there. When Tesla believes the safe SoC for my pack is 70% or less, I charge to 40% (i.e., 50% in capped state). Why 40%? Two reasons in my case: 1) The charge scheduler does not let me set the max below 50%, and 2) I do not believe Tesla's 70% for a second as I think it is an optimistic (read dishonest) PR threshold.
What can we do to hasten battery failure in order to obtain warranty replacement? Between the lawsuit moving at a snail's pace and Tesla doing nothing, maybe we need to take things to another level.
Within the warranty constraints of not disassembling the battery? The only thing that comes to my mind is charging to 100% and then unplugging 12V battery and using the service safety cutoff so the cooling system and all other electronics don't work. If the battery heats up on its own and catches fire, that's Tesla's fault in their own words:
We need to hold Tesla accountable for their words. They have not followed through with "peace of mind"
Thanks. I was thinking along the lines of what we can do in everyday terms of charging and using the car that might hasten battery failure within the warranty period. I ask only because I feel as though we have no other options if we want to keep our cars and not incur a major financial loss.
Not trying to be funny, though it may sound like it, but since this is a very practical advice, are we talking about 80% of total battery capacity, or capped capacity? To be on the safe side, we could just say current capacity, but that would mean 70% of original capacity...Yet another effect of batterygate
Seems like the only path is the lawsuit/NHTSA. If your battery is replaced before any legal resolution, you may end up with reman capped battery, in other words, with the same thing you have now and same potential hazard as you have now. My opinion only.
I like this idea. What did you end up using, if you don't mind sharing? I think I will add a smoke detector to my garage too. Seems necessary and prudent. It's more than unfortunate we have to resolve to such measures to stay safe with this car. It's actually quite insane. Speaks a ton of where their priorities are. I'm somewhat shocked that competition and all the trolls haven't picked up on this thread and its implication. Maybe they have, I'm just not aware of it.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
Repeated Ludicrous launching followed by full regenerative braking, in Death Valley, in the blazing August sun?
islandbayy
Active Member
Don't think we even need to go that far. BMS has been letting my pack on both my MS on 8.1 firmware and MX on latest firmware get above 130*F. Thats cooking these poor cells. If they are trying to avoid fire, that is a poor way to do it!
islandbayy
Active Member
If I update from v8 at some point and get capped to 90%, I'll just turn the slider up to 100% and leave it there forever. And since it will charge really slowly to 100% (the old 90%) just for my regular daily commute, I'll have to start charging at the beginning of off peak power starting at midnight rather than having scheduled charge start at say 5 am since getting to a TRUE 90% will would take twice as long as before. This also means my average SOC will increase dramatically since it takes so long to go from 95% to 100% (the old true 90%).
So glad to still be on V8.
People typically install heat detectors in garages instead of smoke detectors. They alert on sudden changes in temperature or high absolute temperatures. I have two installed. An ICE vehicle may set smoke detectors off inadvertently.
Dust is also a concern, too. You often see heat detectors used in unconditioned spaces like garages and attics. My last house had 13 interconnected heat/smoke detectors - smokes in the basement (2), first floor (2), bedrooms and second floor hall (5), and heat detectors in the attic (1) and garage (3).
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Hey y’all. Moving from another hijacked discussion into an appropriate thread.
@Chaserr has adamantly stated that there is ample evidence, along with “a long thread with names of owners affected who have 75kwh batteries” affected by Batterygate.
Asking at the source - presumably in the actual long thread that Chaserr is referencing - can any of those owners with 75kwh batteries provide evidence of actual capping? My searching has turned up none.
Are there any documented cases of artificially capped vMax on 75kwh batteries? Any evidence of other outward-facing symptoms such as the coolant pump running for extended periods at high SoC along with reductions in supercharging speed? Anything at all? Because I’ve found precisely nothing.
Furthermore, the information collected in the wiki post on this thread would seem to exclude the 75 by inference, as it repeatedly states that the 90kwh batteries are not believed to be affected.
The 75kwh battery, by definition, is the 14 module version of the cells in the 16 module 90kwh pack - just as the 70kwh battery is the 14 module version of the cells in the 16 module 85kwh pack. The cells are the same in the 90/75 packs - why would one be affected and one not?
Evidence appreciated. Hell, I’ll even take anecdotal reports as a starting point.
Thanks all.
@Chaserr has adamantly stated that there is ample evidence, along with “a long thread with names of owners affected who have 75kwh batteries” affected by Batterygate.
Asking at the source - presumably in the actual long thread that Chaserr is referencing - can any of those owners with 75kwh batteries provide evidence of actual capping? My searching has turned up none.
Are there any documented cases of artificially capped vMax on 75kwh batteries? Any evidence of other outward-facing symptoms such as the coolant pump running for extended periods at high SoC along with reductions in supercharging speed? Anything at all? Because I’ve found precisely nothing.
Furthermore, the information collected in the wiki post on this thread would seem to exclude the 75 by inference, as it repeatedly states that the 90kwh batteries are not believed to be affected.
The 75kwh battery, by definition, is the 14 module version of the cells in the 16 module 90kwh pack - just as the 70kwh battery is the 14 module version of the cells in the 16 module 85kwh pack. The cells are the same in the 90/75 packs - why would one be affected and one not?
Evidence appreciated. Hell, I’ll even take anecdotal reports as a starting point.
Thanks all.
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