Wiki Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[ecarfan]

I just noticed that for the static fire the chopsticks arms were both off to the same side; during the recent spin prime test they were spread far apart so one was on each side of the booster.

I wonder why they were moved?

 

[mongo]

I just noticed that for the static fire the chopsticks arms were both off to the same side; during the recent spin prime test they were spread far apart so one was on each side of the booster.

I wonder why they were moved?

Superman mode (up, up, and away) is safer for the arms.
However, spread is more representative of the launch position (arms can't swing away when Starship is stacked). It may also have been a contingency if the booster failed structurally?
Or, they are just improving their processes and derisking things as much as possible?

 

[mongo]

Elon reports test went well.

Also:

Next test is ~20 sec firing with max oxygen fill to test autogenous pressurization, possibly one more static fire, then orbital launch attempt

(Guessing that is all engines...)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592441977525923841

 

[scaesare]

Elon reports test went well.

Also:

(Guessing that is all engines...)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592441977525923841

Wow... there's certainly a lot of "stuff" around that they seem to kick up. I imagine all 33 will really stir things up...

 

[mongo]

Wow... there's certaimm;y a lot of "stuff" around that they seem to kick up. I imagine all 33 will really stir things up...

You can only blow (the same) stuff away once
First static doubles as a pad cleaner.

 

[scaesare]

You can only blow (the same) stuff away once
First static doubles as a pad cleaner.

And don't forget the lovely ditches RUD's dig...

 

[mongo]

Yeah, that post was just me connecting some dots which I’ve quietly seen rolling past over the last from months.

That production rate is insane. Soon they’ll be producing more rocket engines than GM produces modern EVs (/s). That’s 8 new Starships per year. I know they are shooting for more than that, but with reuse, that is ridiculously good. Maybe we’ll see 1 launch in 2022, 8-10 in 2023, then 30+ in 2024, and 100+ in 2025.

Given they can only have as many boosters as launch sites, it's upwards of 50 Starships (second stage) per year at 6 engines per.

 

[Ogre]

Given they can only have as many boosters as launch sites, it's upwards of 50 Starships (second stage) per year at 6 engines per.

Yeah, I failed to take into account the second stage.

So they will only have a handful of boosters and a lot of Starships. That makes a ton of sense. They will likely build a handful of boosters first and at least a few per year though. And Raptors on the existing boosters will need to be replaced.

Regardless…. They will be producing a lot more Starships than if they were producing a booster for each.

They will replace the entire current space industries launch capacity in less than 2 years. Possibly less than 1 year. So crazy.

 

[Electroman]

You can only blow (the same) stuff away once
First static doubles as a pad cleaner.

Debris impacting the booster is only one of the challenges. It is impossible to get a visual of engines during the first 5 critical seconds of the launch until it clears the tower. And those visuals are critical for troubleshooting.

 

[ecarfan]

Debris impacting the booster is only one of the challenges. It is impossible to get a visual of engines during the first 5 critical seconds of the launch until it clears the tower. And those visuals are critical for troubleshooting.

Yes, it is impossible for non-SpaceX cameras set up on public land near the launch facility to see details of the engines firing. I believe there are cameras on the OLM that SpaceX uses to monitor the engines.

Go look at the beautiful slo-mo videos of the Saturn V and STS engines at liftoff. Very clear. It can be done.

 

[Electroman]

Yes, it is impossible for non-SpaceX cameras set up on public land near the launch facility to see details of the engines firing. I believe there are cameras on the OLM that SpaceX uses to monitor the engines.

Go look at the beautiful slo-mo videos of the Saturn V and STS engines at liftoff. Very clear. It can be done.

Maybe you are proving my point? Don't Saturn and Space Shuttle launch pads have flame trench?

There is no place you can have a camera on the OLM that will not get obscured by exhaust gas bouncing off of the concrete floor. .

 

[Ogre]

Signed into the SLS launch live feed when someone linked it for me.

They didn't mention it's 7 hours to launch! LOL

Regardless. Hopefully it launches... though I'm not sure what the future looks like for it in a world where Starship exists.

 

[ecarfan]

There is no place you can have a camera on the OLM that will not get obscured by exhaust gas bouncing off of the concrete floor. .

Not sure that is correct. I think the rocket exhaust will go down and then be pushed outwards. It does not reflect back up onto the engines while they are running.

 

[ecarfan]

Both LOX and LH2 loading 100% complete !

I’m not the moderator of this forum, but I can still point out that this thread is about Super Heavy/Starship. If you want to post about SLS/Artemis there is a thread for that at

SLS - On the Scent of Inevitable Capitulation

They recovered and re-used the shuttle SRBs. Are they not planning to recover the SLS ones? Nope, no chutes, no recovery, more performance, and they have years to make the next set... https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/sls_solid_rocket_booster_fs_03122018.pdf

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Electroman]

I’m not the moderator of this forum, but I can still point out that this thread is about Super Heavy/Starship. If you want to post about SLS/Artemis there is a thread for that at

SLS - On the Scent of Inevitable Capitulation

They recovered and re-used the shuttle SRBs. Are they not planning to recover the SLS ones? Nope, no chutes, no recovery, more performance, and they have years to make the next set... https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/sls_solid_rocket_booster_fs_03122018.pdf

teslamotorsclub.com

Thank you. I guess the correct thread is this: SLS and Orion Development

 

[Ogre]

Looks like NASA is inviting SpaceX to the lunar party after all.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1592651637377703936

 

[scaesare]

Not sure that is correct. I think the rocket exhaust will go down and then be pushed outwards. It does not reflect back up onto the engines while they are running.

I'd expect debris, which can be irregularly shaped, on an uneven surface to bounce all sorts of directions, however....

Isn't that cited as one of the concerns about powered landings on other planets/moons?

 

[ecarfan]

I'd expect debris, which can be irregularly shaped, on an uneven surface to bounce all sorts of directions, however....

Isn't that cited as one of the concerns about powered landings on other planets/moons?

My post was in the context of discussing with @Electroman how SpaceX could get close up video of SH engines during liftoff.

Landing Starship on other planetary bodies is a different issue and perhaps not on topic for this thread. But then maybe my discussion with @Electroman is a bit off topic as well.

 

[scaesare]

My post was in the context of discussing with @Electroman how SpaceX could get close up video of SH engines during liftoff.

Landing Starship on other planetary bodies is a different issue and perhaps not on topic for this thread. But then maybe my discussion with @Electroman is a bit off topic as well.

Right, right... and point well taken. But this thread discussion is all based on the video @mongo posted to which the issue of debris and video were both adressed and tied together when @Electroman said:

Debris impacting the booster is only one of the challenges. It is impossible to get a visual of engines during the first 5 critical seconds of the launch until it clears the tower. And those visuals are critical for troubleshooting.

Given that Starship is both expected to withstand any such debris during launch as well as when it lands on Mars, I don't think discussion of new such things that develop during testing are any less on-topic than actual mechanical developments... at least that's my story for both our discussions lol

 

[ecarfan]

New Starbase update video from NSF