Supercharger - Barstow (EXPANDED, 5 stalls added, now 16 total)

[callmesam]

The first three photos are from Thursday at 4pm.

This photo is from today.

Looks like the metal cladding is complete.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm surprised that they used a cantilevered design like that with the winds that they have in that area!!

The thickness of the beams are unbelievable. Wind will rip the panels off way before anything moves the structure.

Anyone driving through should get some close-ups.

 

[cpa]

I'm going to speculate that electric service in Barstow is crazy-expensive. That has to be the #1 factor in going solar; #2 being that Barstow simply gets oodles of sun year-round!


Coming in to Barstow northbound with about 30 miles of range left, I needed only about 20 minutes' charging time to comfortably make Primm. (Went into Chili's and ordered dessert, the timing was just right. I recommend the "skillet cookie." Mmmmmmm...)

We arrive eastbound from the Central Valley, and my wife (or son, depending) opt for our favorite fermented malted beverage at Chili's during our 35-minute charging stop.

 

[ratsbew]

I took some pictures today of the finished solar canopy. Looks pretty good.

 

[spentan]

Looks great

 

[C10cruiser]

killer pics. Thanks Ratsbew.

 

[tbleakne]

If I am reading it right, Ratsbew's excellent picture of the DC interconnect seems to show an operating rating of 280V at 50A, which would be 14 kW DC. Does that sound about right for this size canopy ? If so, it might average perhaps 80 kWh per day ?

 

[Cottonwood]

If I am reading it right, Ratsbew's excellent picture of the DC interconnect seems to show an operating rating of 280V at 50A, which would be 14 kW DC. Does that sound about right for this size canopy ? If so, it might average perhaps 80 kWh per day ?

Great reading the fine print!

Yes, 50.4 Amps at 280 Volts is the maximum power point under standard conditions and full sun for those panels. This is a very reasonable set of numbers for this site. A good rule of thumb is that average production is 5 hours of peak output per day. That would be about 70 kWh per day production for this site. That means this solar canopy will produce about 2 Supercharges per day on average.

The shade is great, and the style is wonderful, but solar canopies don't come close to making enough energy to offset what is consumed by an average Supercharger site.

 

[jrreno]

So this begs the question, how large would the array have to be to supply all energy for the Barstow SpC?

 

[miimura]

So this begs the question, how large would the array have to be to supply all energy for the Barstow SpC?

You would have to know the annual energy usage at the site to estimate the array size. Only Tesla knows and it's probably changing over time due to additional sites like Primm reducing the average Barstow usage per car and the ever growing Tesla vehicle population.

 

[Cottonwood]

So this begs the question, how large would the array have to be to supply all energy for the Barstow SpC?

You would have to know the annual energy usage at the site to estimate the array size. Only Tesla knows and it's probably changing over time due to additional sites like Primm reducing the average Barstow usage per car and the ever growing Tesla vehicle population.

We don't know exact numbers for Barstow, but we know enough for a WAG (Wild A** Guess).

From the second graphic at Tesla Supercharger network - Page 568 from Oct 2014, we see that the average energy output is 10 MWh/mo per Supercharger Site, averaged over Supercharger Sites worldwide. That is an average of about 333 kWh/day per site.

From Tesla Supercharger network - Page 592 we can see that in the middle of December 2014, the top 10 sites delivered from 1,561 to 4,411 kWh/day per site, with Fremont the winner.

Let's say that Barstow is somewhere in between the top ten and the mean. Do a WAG and say it's the geometric average of #10 and the mean, that gives us a WAG of 720 kWh/day delivered in Barstow.

The WAG estimate is that to be grid neutral, Barstow needs about 10x the solar panels that it has now. For all Superchargers to be grid neutral as a group, then each and every Supercharger Site needs about 5x the panels that are at Barstow.

 

[miimura]

Nice figures Cottonwood. Off the top of my head, I would have guessed 8-10 times the current size. By the way, it looks like Inyokern will have at least double the array size of Barstow judging by the spacing of the pavement cutouts for the support posts. Of course, this is just another WAG based on other people's pictures posted on TMC.

 

[GabrielB]

Wow the Solar Canopy with the stone work at the Barstow SC is really nice, just what I hoped to see ever since we've been speculating about the huge footings.
Cottonwood and Others; as to the WAG of 6-10X the amount of Solar Panels needed to be grid neutral, not to worry, the grid does not really care where you are, as long as you are connected…
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7757922,-118.43074,3630m/data=!3m1!1e3
Along Hwy138 in the Antelope Valley - Just one of several all over the state. Notice the evenly spaced Bunker Houses for Batteries?

So, the 6-10X need for grid neutrality may have already been met. Not sure who owns all these various Solar Farms; Solar City, Warren Buffet, Tesla; but there are a lot of them.
I placed my reservation/order for Model S in March of 2009, and installed Solar Panels in anticipation in August 2009. They told me 4kW of panels was the best $ for $ ROI after all the tax & PG&E credits at that time. I asked if I'd be net neutral for the year and they said that it would take 7kW to cover the house, hot tub, and Tesla. At the time, PG&E required a copy of the Tesla reservation deposit contract in order to approve the 7kW. The point I am making is that there is a difference in rate costs and time of use credits versus the desire for net neutrality. (I went with the 7kW.)
In Barstow, I think the grid (low nighttime rate) and/or daytime solar panels charge the onsite battery storage, and then the batteries and solar panels help offset charging the cars during the afternoon ultra peak usage rates. Same type of thing in Inyokern, but demand there for only 4 spots is low, so the three small pole mounted transformers augmented by solar panels and battery storage makes the big pad mounted transformer unnecessary. Sound reasonable?
Regardless, I love to park in the shade while charging.

 

[Cottonwood]

In Barstow, I think the grid (low nighttime rate) and/or daytime solar panels charge the onsite battery storage, and then the batteries and solar panels help offset charging the cars during the afternoon ultra peak usage rates. Same type of thing in Inyokern, but demand there for only 4 spots is low, so the three small pole mounted transformers augmented by solar panels and battery storage makes the big pad mounted transformer unnecessary. Sound reasonable?
Regardless, I love to park in the shade while charging.[/FONT][/FONT]

The energy storage is mostly for reducing peak demand, and therefore demand charges. It can also do some load shifting to less expensive night time rates.

The pole transformers at 3x100 kVA would be large enough for a 4-stall site at Inyokern.

Solar farms are good, but I don't know of any that Tesla has invested in to offset Superchargers. To use a Solar Farm and have it offset Supercharger energy use on a net metering basis can be a real challenge...

 

[cpa]

To continue Cottonwood's theme about a 720kWh average draw at Barstow: If we assume that an average charge at Barstow is around 50kWh, then the average usage per day would be estimated at 14.4 charge-equivalents per day. I wonder how close this is to actual usage over any given month.

 

[johnnyS]

When I went to the supercharger announcement in Hawthorne back in 2012, Elon stated that solar will completely offset the power used. He said something along the lines of a supercharger in the northwest may not have a solar canopy, but it would be offset by superchargers in places like Barstow with solar canopies There were three big points at the supercharger announcement: we get to drive around the country for free, supercharging is fast, and we drive around on clean energy.

If Barstow cannot produce enough power to meet demand, what site can?

I have been under the impression that battery storage and solar will be enough to cover the costs of operating the supercharger network. As long as Tesla is growing and cannot meet demand this may work. What happens in a recession and they have the large fixed cost of maintaining and operating the supercharger network?

 

[RandyS]

Was just charging at this site on a road trip, and noticed that the PV meter is still not installed, and the disconnect switch is still in the off position. So there is no solar power being generated at this location yet....

 

[Cottonwood]

Was just charging at this site on a road trip, and noticed that the PV meter is still not installed, and the disconnect switch is still in the off position. So there is no solar power being generated at this location yet....

The status was the same (off and no PV generation) when I was there 3 weeks ago.

I was also surprised at the charging stall layout. I expected the 4 stalls under the canopy to be from 4 Supercharger Cabinets to encourage distribution of charging cars across the 4 cabinets on hot, sunny days, but the 4 stalls under the canopy are served by 2 cabinets and the 4 stalls out in the sun are served by the other 2 cabinets.

 

[Tyl]

Photos from yesterday!

 

[TTT]

Just arrived at Barstow, 0 cars charging. SC 4A and 4B not working.

by the time I got back to the car, Tesla just finished replacing the fuse. All working now

 

[Cottonwood]

Just arrived at Barstow, 0 cars charging. SC 4A and 4B not working.

by the time I got back to the car, Tesla just finished replacing the fuse. All working now

Fuse? Perhaps, resetting the circuit breaker...