Supercharger Price Increase

[david_42]

I'm curious if Tesla will eventually introduce Time of Use Supercharging pricing. Higher fees for peak (say 1-7PM or whatever) times, and lower fees for off peak. Give incentive for people to charge during periods of lower demand charges.

Wouldn't work in Oregon, because off-peak is typically 10 pm to 6 am. If you have time of use billing, on-peak is triple the base rate, and even the mid-peak rate is double. Off -peak for me would be only 0.02/kwhr lower than the base. On the other hand, a big pile of batteries at the stations to charge-up off-peak might make sense. Maybe make deals with wind/solar suppliers to absorb their surpluses.

That said, I doubt we'd be using a SC more than a couple times a year. Portland-Seatac maybe, but driving to San Francisco, San Diego, or even Reno means using the Sprinter.

 

[iwannam3]

I still don’t get the point of hybrids honestly.

Better gas mileage? Not idling and creating pollution when stopped in traffic? Getting a short boost of power using the ICE and electric motor? Getting some regen when braking?

 

[internalaudit]

I wonder how station hogging will be solved until those S and X with lifetime charging are scrapped? I'm sure Tesla cannot reneged on the lifetime promise but hey, a little OTA here and there and presto.

This is definitely not keeping up with the revenue neutral stance Tesla has for the SCN and service/maintenance.

Cash is king!

 

[Garlan Garner]

This has absolutely nothing to do with preventing long distance or local charging. Especially since this price increase / structure will only apply to Model 3 owners.

Tesla just needs to make a statement as to why they are doing what they are doing......then all of the misdirected speculation in this and other threads will go away.

 

[ChrisH]

Better gas mileage? Not idling and creating pollution when stopped in traffic? Getting a short boost of power using the ICE and electric motor? Getting some regen when braking?

I just think all electric makes way more sense. I guess maybe the cost to produce has been the issue?

 

[MikeBur]

You have a good point in the larger sense. It's just not particularly relevant here.

I’ll take it, though I will agree to disagree on relevancy

To me it’s very relevant to inform users of the cost of their fuel openly and transparently before purchase. The absolute cost of the tesla electrons today is incidental.

Whether it’s fossil fuel or electrons via blink, etc - you know how much each unit costs before you fill up. With Tesla current approach you discover after the fact.

I contend large changes like Saturday’s should be proactively communicated, though concede this current move is likely an unusual event. Additionally, it would behoove Tesla to indicate pricing on charging UI in car/app for their own Urban/SCs.

Easy to do, shows respect to customer, aligns to existing fuel cost legislation today, etc.

I seriously believe I’ve likely spent more than a lifetime’s worth of SC cost already in sunk time on this thread - lol... /endtrans

 

[dhanson865]

I just think all electric makes way more sense. I guess maybe the cost to produce has been the issue?

Yes, from 2005 to 2011 the hybrid was efficiency king. Just enough battery to keep the gas motor from running 100% of the time. It should have moved to Plug in Hybrids with more battery sooner but there was no viable market stealing competition to the Prius back in the 2000s.

Come 2012 to now EVs are king. Both the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla everything (roadster, S, X, 3) have stolen the thunder from hybrids. No reason to look back. It's ancient history in the tech world. Any company talking about hybrids after 2011 was just whistling past the graveyard.

There was a year or two on the cusp between EVs just coming out and it being obvious that EVs would take over. But Toyota screwed the pooch by hanging onto minimal battery configs instead of improving and moving forward.

My 2005 is still working perfectly but I have no doubt I'll get rid of it and go double EV household soon. I would have upgraded it to a proper plug in hybrid had they offered one before EVs became the clear best choice.

 

[ℬête Noire]

People crying over SC rates that they will barely ever see is going to be nothing compared to the reality of that auto insurance and dmv registration bills that WILL come like clockwork.

Yeah.....I've not broke that news to the wife yet.

 

[ℬête Noire]

To me it’s very relevant to inform users of the cost of their fuel openly and transparently before purchase.

So I have not ever used one so with all this handwaving I assumed you weren't told during charging. Turns out that's just another layer of all this handwaving nonsense. I guess in fairness nearly all Tesla owners haven't seen one with an actual charged amount, either.

Whether it’s fossil fuel or electrons via blink, etc - you know how much each unit costs before you fill up.

LOL, um no. Have you actually used Blink??? I tried to find out on their website...and it gave me the wrong price. Literally a different price than they charged to my CC after I'd used it...and trying to figure out their "club" pricing and what being in the "club" meant (it seems probably nothing? I sure hope it doesn't mean they kept my CC # on file ). What a load of camel dung that was. Of course if the screen had been legible (it wasn't) I might have known during charging but still this was testing blind to find out what it was that they'd charge. So that's almost to SC level of service there?

With Tesla current approach you discover after the fact.

I mean besides there being accurate pricing on their website. Which, again, puts them ahead of the EV charging completion...and pretty much every gas station. You can try find gas prices via 3rd party sites but I can't say I've ever seen one publish their prices online? You have to drive up to lay eyes on it.

I contend large changes like Saturday’s should be proactively communicated, though concede this current move is likely an unusual event.

I contend you haven't a sniff. See above.

 

[SageBrush]

I just think all electric makes way more sense. I guess maybe the cost to produce has been the issue?

• Cost to buy
• Cost to run
• Range
• Reliability

After tax credits, I paid $17k for our Prius Prime. I pay under 4 cents a mile for fossil fuel, and am not dependent on a Supercharger network. If the car continues legacy Prius reliability it will run for 300k miles without repairs. This may not be your cup of tea but it should not be hard to see the attraction.

Oh, and by the way ? Even though the car is used for 90 mile commuting and has a puny 5.6 kWh usable battery, over a year it has averaged 0.9 gallons + 5.6 kWh electricity per 90 miles commute. For my use case this works out to a little over 2 cents a mile combined fuel types, close to zero Nox, zero Sox pollution, and about 120 grams CO2/mile from well to wheel in Coal happy SW Colorado.

 

[Garlan Garner]

The new price of supercharging going up 32% across the country for Model 3 owners alone is astounding.

 

[boiler81]

To me it’s very relevant to inform users of the cost of their fuel openly and transparently before purchase. The absolute cost of the tesla electrons today is incidental.

Why is Tesla becoming like all the other major auto makers, and feeding people "a PR statement", after they are exposed making a change, detrimental to consumers. Did this alleged "demand charge" that Tesla has to recover from Model 3 buyers just come about?

Why has WA state SC charges over doubled when we have some of the cheapest power in the country. Sure I'm OK paying for what it cost, but to price it based on prevailing state gas prices is just maximizing your revenue, and managing demand. My home power is all from the local utility district (all hydro generated power) and cost me $0.035/kW, and all WA state SC stations, including the planned 2018 SC 8-miles away, will charge $0.25/kW. What's wrong with this picture?

I know the arrows are coming, but believe it or not, I'm not getting an M3 just to "save the planet". I only became a Tesla fan boy and stood in line to reserve a M3, when I realized I could drive greater distances for much less fuel cost, get a good looking and technologically advanced vehicle, and "save the planet". Now I'm only getting this benefit largely when I charge at home, and drive locally. Definitely lowered the cost/benefit equation for me.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Why has WA state SC charges over doubled when we have some of the cheapest power in the country.

In the interior but the coast residential numbers say it's actually a bit above what I pay in semi-rural SE TX. I have friends closer in to Houston that pay even less than WA's overall average of 8.5c/kWh (I'm pretty close to that average). I know that's not exactly what Tesla pays, residential vs commercial and all, but when you've got disparity like that across the state but statewide pricing you have to start looking at where Tesla's SC usage is lying....and I'm guessing it's not a majority in the interior.

 

[SageBrush]

People crying over SC rates that they will barely ever see is going to be nothing compared to the reality of that auto insurance and dmv registration bills that WILL come like clockwork.

1++

I will never understand the people that will justify a $40k car purchase until they are blue in the face yet bitch and whine bitterly over a few dollar fuel surcharge. People are funny that way; but thankfully not all of them, or I would be running for hills to get away from the insanity.

 

[MXWing]

Yeah.....I've not broke that news to the wife yet.

Had to switch from AAA to Amica immediately. I asked for discount on lube for staying with AAA but they wouldn't even grant me that.

Source: AAA Says Tesla Owners Should Pay More For Car Insurance, Not Less | Gas 2

but yeah... lets resume our regularly scheduled program:

Non Tesla owners not believing that most Tesla owners charge in their GARAGE 99% of the time.

1++

I will never understand the people that will justify a $40k car purchase until they are blue in the face yet bitch and whine bitterly over a few dollar fuel surcharge. People are funny that way; but thankfully not all of them, or I would be running for hills to get away from the insanity.

In fairness, it's also not smart for us to jump on a a $100K car because we'll make a few dollars in free supercharging.

The new price of supercharging going up 32% across the country for Model 3 owners alone is astounding.

132% of 0 is still 0. That's how its going to be the majority of the time.

32% without context means nothing. If the retail value of a screw goes up 300% from 10 cents to 30 cents for the pack of 5 screws they are buying, no one will care.

300% wholesale cost from 1 cent to 3 cents, across 500,000 screws is going to matter.

 

[diamond.g]

Better gas mileage? Not idling and creating pollution when stopped in traffic? Getting a short boost of power using the ICE and electric motor? Getting some regen when braking?

Hybrids need bigger batteries. No reason why we shouldn’t be able to drive 100 miles on electric before switching to gas.

 

[NerdUno]

1++

I will never understand the people that will justify a $40k car purchase until they are blue in the face yet bitch and whine bitterly over a few dollar fuel surcharge. People are funny that way; but thankfully not all of them, or I would be running for hills to get away from the insanity.

Perhaps what you're missing is that many folks are going to buy a $40K+ car whether it's a Tesla or not. The tipping point for some will be the operational cost after purchase. Tesla just made that calculation more difficult for many of us.

 

[bro1999]

Wouldn't work in Oregon, because off-peak is typically 10 pm to 6 am. If you have time of use billing, on-peak is triple the base rate, and even the mid-peak rate is double. Off -peak for me would be only 0.02/kwhr lower than the base. On the other hand, a big pile of batteries at the stations to charge-up off-peak might make sense. Maybe make deals with wind/solar suppliers to absorb their surpluses.

That said, I doubt we'd be using a SC more than a couple times a year. Portland-Seatac maybe, but driving to San Francisco, San Diego, or even Reno means using the Sprinter.

Tesla doesn't have to follow the models the utilities use. They could come up with their own peak/off-peak hours and adjust pricing accordingly. I'm sure Tesla has some data scientists on hand that could crunch the numbers and develop a TOU model that would work for most.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Perhaps what you're missing is that many folks are going to buy a $40K+ car whether it's a Tesla or not. The tipping point for some will be the operational cost after purchase. Tesla just made that calculation more difficult for many of us.

Only for the "I can't L2 charge at home or work", again I'm convinced this car isn't targeted there (and hats off to those that push through to make that work). Besides, even at the increased SC prices -all- the time what $40K+ ICE car (assuming similar size and roughly similar performance envelope) is operating cheaper?

You're really talking about edge case of an edge case.

 

[BerTX]

Why is Tesla becoming like all the other major auto makers, and feeding people "a PR statement", after they are exposed making a change, detrimental to consumers. Did this alleged "demand charge" that Tesla has to recover from Model 3 buyers just come about?

Why has WA state SC charges over doubled when we have some of the cheapest power in the country. Sure I'm OK paying for what it cost, but to price it based on prevailing state gas prices is just maximizing your revenue, and managing demand. My home power is all from the local utility district (all hydro generated power) and cost me $0.035/kW, and all WA state SC stations, including the planned 2018 SC 8-miles away, will charge $0.25/kW. What's wrong with this picture?

I know the arrows are coming, but believe it or not, I'm not getting an M3 just to "save the planet". I only became a Tesla fan boy and stood in line to reserve a M3, when I realized I could drive greater distances for much less fuel cost, get a good looking and technologically advanced vehicle, and "save the planet". Now I'm only getting this benefit largely when I charge at home, and drive locally. Definitely lowered the cost/benefit equation for me.

I think PSE commercial rates start at 17¢ per kWh, then the demand portion affects what gets charged. I don't understand exactly how the demand portion works.