Superchargers to be limited in future? coming to McDonalds?

[Dave EV]

Your thoughts?

I saw it coming.

I'm really surprised that Tesla did not given how long abuse of free resources has gone on - even in the EV world.

Fact: Provide something for free, and selfish people will go out of their way to abuse use of those resources.

This has happened at countless free DCQC and L2 stations with people going through efforts far beyond what a rational person would consider sane to save a few bucks. The end result is that these stations are no longer free.

 

[BobtheV]

I certainly agree that SC's should be used for their intended purpose. However there may be occasional times when a SC may be needed by a local. I would think that a future iteration of firmware might allow a couple of local charges per month - but not unlimited visits.

 

[islandbayy]

When the local SC is installed, I would not hesitate to use it if I need a recharge. I will not go out of my way to use it instead of charging at home, however, If I have a day where I am doing excessive driving, weather it be Long Distance or LOCAL, if I am in need of a charge to regain a large quantity of range, I will not hesitate. If I do not need a quick recharge, I have no problem paying $3 at home to fully charge my MS overnight.

 

[dirkhh]

When the local SC is installed, I would not hesitate to use it if I need a recharge. I will not go out of my way to use it instead of charging at home, however, If I have a day where I am doing excessive driving, weather it be Long Distance or LOCAL, if I am in need of a charge to regain a large quantity of range, I will not hesitate. If I do not need a quick recharge, I have no problem paying $3 at home to fully charge my MS overnight.

And I see nothing in this statement that would be in conflict with what the Superchargers are supposed to be about. They give us a way to very quickly charge. Whether that's during a long road trip or after a busy day driving around town.
So any notion that locals should be prohibited from using them is simply foolish and would be a clear break of what was promised to us when paying a lot of money for the privilege of being able to use SCs.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This would be like the person who drives 20 miles to save a ten cents on a gallon of gas. The novelty of "free electricity" will wear off very soon as the hassle takes over.

And yet there are people who do this very thing. There are also folks who will Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) if they can save a nickel compared to paying for public charging for their EV (the fact that they need the expense of two cars seems to be lost on many).

I prefer paying for charging so that the freeloaders won't be squatting when I get there to charge.

 

[NoMoGas]

I prefer paying for charging so that the freeloaders won't be squatting when I get there to charge.

Keep in mind Tesla has no freeloaders... we pay THOUSANDS of dollars for "free" charging.

I have seen a few people talk about the "intention" of the SC network. Where has Tesla ever said what the intent was? Specifically that one type of MS owner charging is preferred over another? Just curious

Fact is most SC's are located in areas that aren't conducive to local charging, but I have no doubt that if I lived in Delaware and drove past the SC station every day I may be tempted to do so simply because I paid for the privilege to do so. Maybe THAT is how the SC access will be controlled... cost.

 

[Merrill]

I have a hard time understanding someone who pays close to $100,000 worrying about $20 of charging at home. If there is room at the supercharger then not a problem. But if you are trying to do a long trip either on vacation or a weekend and there is no room for you to charge because a local is trying to get a free charge that is not respecting the intended use of the supercharger network.

 

[deonb]

So I had an interesting, and slightly concerning, conversation at the local Tesla store today.

<snip>

Your thoughts?

Unless you literally talked to Elon or George, I wouldn't put any credibility in it.

Tesla employees are fairly new to customer service and it's at that stage where they will over-enthusiastically share information and internal rumors that aren't actually firm yet.

 

[Kaivball]

I certainly agree that SC's should be used for their intended purpose. However there may be occasional times when a SC may be needed by a local. I would think that a future iteration of firmware might allow a couple of local charges per month - but not unlimited visits.

Well, the intended purpose of a supercharger is to charge your car fast.

I paid for unlimited lifetime access to SC's.

Maybe for future owners they will change it, just like they did for cellphones. I am grandfathered in and still have an unlimited data plan.

 

[Kaivball]

I have a hard time understanding someone who pays close to $100,000 worrying about $20 of charging at home. If there is room at the supercharger then not a problem. But if you are trying to do a long trip either on vacation or a weekend and there is no room for you to charge because a local is trying to get a free charge that is not respecting the intended use of the supercharger network.

That's a false statement.

The purpose of the supercharger is to charge a Model S fast.

I live near Gilroy and a Tesla sales person even mentioned that AS A BENEFIT!

 

[Kipernicus]

This is the price we pay for free charging

Psychologically (not that I am an expert, just speaking from personal feeling) an upfront prepaid cost is very different from pay-per-use, pay-per-hour, or pay-per-kWh.
In fact if you think about the thousands of dollars paid upfront, then by golly I'm going to hit that SC every chance I get.

It's also the notion of relative costs - you don't compare the cost of plugging in to the cost of the car, you compare your cost of plugging in at home to the time and inconvenience of using a SC. If I'm going shopping anyways, why not go to the mall with the SC? If I plan on spending time talking on the phone or reading a book, why not do it at a SC that's nearby?

I'm driving to LA next week and really hope the family doesn't have to endure too many delays waiting for a charge. I agree that it would be a PR nightmare for Tesla to go back on their word, but I have thought all along that pay-per-use/time is really the only way to fairly manage supply and demand. It's too bad they went the free route because it's making it sometimes inconvenient for travelers and potentially expensive for Tesla to keep building infrastructure.

What is Tesla's endgame? How many superchargers can they roll out?

 

[Merrill]

You will not convince me that with an electric vehicle the idea is to allow locals to use it as an everyday way to charge, again if you are not keeping someone who is on a trip from charging, then I have no problem. Adding additional superchargers across the country is being done to get EV more main stream and take away the negative that you cannot take a long road trip. If there was an unlimited amount of stations at each supercharger an no one had to wait then it is not a problem. I do not want Tesla to change anything, I just want owners to be accommodating and understand each point of view.

 

[TonyWilliams]

How to get a "pay for use" system without upsetting the current users:

The free ones would continue to get built out on the present plan, however inner city / local chargers with a new name "Uberchargers" would be pay-to-play. I would use that knowing that the free ones will likely be loaded up with freeloaders and car-parkers (parked, not charging).

Remember, if Tesla sells a million cars, it doesn't take very many freeloaders and car-parkers to completely block out an entire Supercharger location. If I have my CHAdeMO adaptor, I would likely use that a lot, too.

 

[PhilBa]

Wow, lots of angst over this issue. I still don't see it as a real problem. Sure there will be some people that will take advantage (though I find it hard to even call it that) but, seriously, more than a few people are going to go out of their way to save a few bucks? Yeah, there is always the guy that drives all over town to save a couple of pennies on a gallon of gas. But are they the norm? I wouldn't use a supercharger instead of charging at home if it was more than a couple of miles out of my way. My time is worth more to me than that.

Frankly, I can see Tesla dropping pre-paid unlimited SC use from newer models and going to a billing model. Since they know who you are and where you live, they wouldn't need to have any special authorization system. Just charge the car and the payment gets automatically debited. Or perhaps it's an annual subscription.

If there is any modification to the unlimited model for existing owners, there will be a class action suit that Tesla could never win. But, an even bigger loss would be customer loyalty. So, I seriously doubt it will happen.

 

[Andercam]

I have a hard time understanding someone who pays close to $100,000 worrying about $20 of charging at home.

This is exactly what was going through my mind as I read this thread.

Question: I thought I read somewhere that the SC is really hard on the battery because of the heat it generates while charging so fast... hence the reason it only does a 50% charge at that rate.
Wouldn't using the SC every day drastically reduce the life of the battery?

 

[dpodoll]

Make it free if you are 50 miles from home.

 

[Dave EV]

Sure there will be some people that will take advantage (though I find it hard to even call it that) but, seriously, more than a few people are going to go out of their way to save a few bucks?

When you are selling thousands of cars in a concentrated area (like Hawthorne or Gilroy), it doesn't take many people to quickly clog up the infrastructure.

Wouldn't using the SC every day drastically reduce the life of the battery?

Tesla says it shouldn't be significant. And you can bet there are people who will simply turn the car in at the end of the "lease" for a new one if that happens. Penny wise, pound foolish...

 

[Lloyd]

I have talked to people that SC 2X daily, 5 days per week.

 

[4sevens.com]

How to get a "pay for use" system without upsetting the current users:

The free ones would continue to get built out on the present plan, however inner city / local chargers with a new name "Uberchargers" would be pay-to-play. I would use that knowing that the free ones will likely be loaded up with freeloaders and car-parkers (parked, not charging).

Remember, if Tesla sells a million cars, it doesn't take very many freeloaders and car-parkers to completely block out an entire Supercharger location. If I have my CHAdeMO adaptor, I would likely use that a lot, too.

Ideal... advanced reservation subscription... You can reserve a spot with a charge as long as you are headed in that direction (gps verified) and you will arrive in time for the reservation.

Everyone else you can enter your (free) reservation when you are 1/10 of a mile of the charging station. Basically pull up and wait in the queue.

So when you're making long trips it makes sense to pay (a little - maybe just $5) for an advanced reservation to make sure you get a spot and be back on the road.

 

[Doug_G]

I think Tesla is going to have a problem with locals "abusing" Superchargers. We installed a CS-90 at our office, free for public use, and our very first "customer" abused it. He showed up every night at around 10:00 pm and filled up his Ford Focus. Yes he would sit in his car for up to two hours. He was doing all of his charging here.

The intent of making our charge station publicly available was to facilitate road trips, etc., not to give someone who just bought a new car free electricity to the tune of $50 a month. So I kicked him out (although I did say he could come back if he actually needed a fast charge for some reason).

From what I've heard I'm not the first to kick him out of a charging station... and he has since been spotted doing the very same thing at another public charging station.

Ultimately the only way to fairly allocate limited resources is to charge for them.