TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Superchargers to be limited in future? coming to McDonalds?

Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by NoMoGas, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Dave EV

    Dave EV Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,321
    Location:
    San Diego
    I saw it coming.

    I'm really surprised that Tesla did not given how long abuse of free resources has gone on - even in the EV world.

    Fact: Provide something for free, and selfish people will go out of their way to abuse use of those resources.

    This has happened at countless free DCQC and L2 stations with people going through efforts far beyond what a rational person would consider sane to save a few bucks. The end result is that these stations are no longer free.
     
  2. BobtheV

    BobtheV Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    I certainly agree that SC's should be used for their intended purpose. However there may be occasional times when a SC may be needed by a local. I would think that a future iteration of firmware might allow a couple of local charges per month - but not unlimited visits.
     
  3. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,458
    Location:
    Greendale, Wisconsin
    When the local SC is installed, I would not hesitate to use it if I need a recharge. I will not go out of my way to use it instead of charging at home, however, If I have a day where I am doing excessive driving, weather it be Long Distance or LOCAL, if I am in need of a charge to regain a large quantity of range, I will not hesitate. If I do not need a quick recharge, I have no problem paying $3 at home to fully charge my MS overnight.
     
  4. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,646
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    And I see nothing in this statement that would be in conflict with what the Superchargers are supposed to be about. They give us a way to very quickly charge. Whether that's during a long road trip or after a busy day driving around town.
    So any notion that locals should be prohibited from using them is simply foolish and would be a clear break of what was promised to us when paying a lot of money for the privilege of being able to use SCs.
     
  5. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
    And yet there are people who do this very thing. There are also folks who will Just-Drive-The-Prius(TM) if they can save a nickel compared to paying for public charging for their EV (the fact that they need the expense of two cars seems to be lost on many).

    I prefer paying for charging so that the freeloaders won't be squatting when I get there to charge.
     
  6. NoMoGas

    NoMoGas Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,018
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California, United States
    Keep in mind Tesla has no freeloaders... we pay THOUSANDS of dollars for "free" charging.

    I have seen a few people talk about the "intention" of the SC network. Where has Tesla ever said what the intent was? Specifically that one type of MS owner charging is preferred over another? Just curious

    Fact is most SC's are located in areas that aren't conducive to local charging, but I have no doubt that if I lived in Delaware and drove past the SC station every day I may be tempted to do so simply because I paid for the privilege to do so. Maybe THAT is how the SC access will be controlled... cost.
     
  7. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,065
    Location:
    Sonoma, California
    I have a hard time understanding someone who pays close to $100,000 worrying about $20 of charging at home. If there is room at the supercharger then not a problem. But if you are trying to do a long trip either on vacation or a weekend and there is no room for you to charge because a local is trying to get a free charge that is not respecting the intended use of the supercharger network.
     
  8. deonb

    deonb Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,796
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    Unless you literally talked to Elon or George, I wouldn't put any credibility in it.

    Tesla employees are fairly new to customer service and it's at that stage where they will over-enthusiastically share information and internal rumors that aren't actually firm yet.
     
  9. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    Well, the intended purpose of a supercharger is to charge your car fast.

    I paid for unlimited lifetime access to SC's.

    Maybe for future owners they will change it, just like they did for cellphones. I am grandfathered in and still have an unlimited data plan.
     
  10. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    That's a false statement.

    The purpose of the supercharger is to charge a Model S fast.

    I live near Gilroy and a Tesla sales person even mentioned that AS A BENEFIT!
     
  11. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,247
    Location:
    Belmont, CA
    This is the price we pay for free charging

    Psychologically (not that I am an expert, just speaking from personal feeling) an upfront prepaid cost is very different from pay-per-use, pay-per-hour, or pay-per-kWh.
    In fact if you think about the thousands of dollars paid upfront, then by golly I'm going to hit that SC every chance I get.

    It's also the notion of relative costs - you don't compare the cost of plugging in to the cost of the car, you compare your cost of plugging in at home to the time and inconvenience of using a SC. If I'm going shopping anyways, why not go to the mall with the SC? If I plan on spending time talking on the phone or reading a book, why not do it at a SC that's nearby?

    I'm driving to LA next week and really hope the family doesn't have to endure too many delays waiting for a charge. I agree that it would be a PR nightmare for Tesla to go back on their word, but I have thought all along that pay-per-use/time is really the only way to fairly manage supply and demand. It's too bad they went the free route because it's making it sometimes inconvenient for travelers and potentially expensive for Tesla to keep building infrastructure.

    What is Tesla's endgame? How many superchargers can they roll out?
     
  12. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,065
    Location:
    Sonoma, California
    You will not convince me that with an electric vehicle the idea is to allow locals to use it as an everyday way to charge, again if you are not keeping someone who is on a trip from charging, then I have no problem. Adding additional superchargers across the country is being done to get EV more main stream and take away the negative that you cannot take a long road trip. If there was an unlimited amount of stations at each supercharger an no one had to wait then it is not a problem. I do not want Tesla to change anything, I just want owners to be accommodating and understand each point of view.
     
  13. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    San Diego - Tesla powered Rav4 EV
    How to get a "pay for use" system without upsetting the current users:

    The free ones would continue to get built out on the present plan, however inner city / local chargers with a new name "Uberchargers" would be pay-to-play. I would use that knowing that the free ones will likely be loaded up with freeloaders and car-parkers (parked, not charging).

    Remember, if Tesla sells a million cars, it doesn't take very many freeloaders and car-parkers to completely block out an entire Supercharger location. If I have my CHAdeMO adaptor, I would likely use that a lot, too.
     
  14. PhilBa

    PhilBa Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,379
    Location:
    Seattle
    Wow, lots of angst over this issue. I still don't see it as a real problem. Sure there will be some people that will take advantage (though I find it hard to even call it that) but, seriously, more than a few people are going to go out of their way to save a few bucks? Yeah, there is always the guy that drives all over town to save a couple of pennies on a gallon of gas. But are they the norm? I wouldn't use a supercharger instead of charging at home if it was more than a couple of miles out of my way. My time is worth more to me than that.

    Frankly, I can see Tesla dropping pre-paid unlimited SC use from newer models and going to a billing model. Since they know who you are and where you live, they wouldn't need to have any special authorization system. Just charge the car and the payment gets automatically debited. Or perhaps it's an annual subscription.

    If there is any modification to the unlimited model for existing owners, there will be a class action suit that Tesla could never win. But, an even bigger loss would be customer loyalty. So, I seriously doubt it will happen.
     
  15. Andercam

    Andercam Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Colorado
    This is exactly what was going through my mind as I read this thread.

    Question: I thought I read somewhere that the SC is really hard on the battery because of the heat it generates while charging so fast... hence the reason it only does a 50% charge at that rate.
    Wouldn't using the SC every day drastically reduce the life of the battery?
     
  16. dpodoll

    dpodoll Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    330
    Make it free if you are 50 miles from home.
     
  17. Dave EV

    Dave EV Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,321
    Location:
    San Diego
    When you are selling thousands of cars in a concentrated area (like Hawthorne or Gilroy), it doesn't take many people to quickly clog up the infrastructure.

    Tesla says it shouldn't be significant. And you can bet there are people who will simply turn the car in at the end of the "lease" for a new one if that happens. Penny wise, pound foolish...
     
  18. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,071
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    I have talked to people that SC 2X daily, 5 days per week.
     
  19. 4sevens.com

    4sevens.com Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    419
    Ideal... advanced reservation subscription... You can reserve a spot with a charge as long as you are headed in that direction (gps verified) and you will arrive in time for the reservation.

    Everyone else you can enter your (free) reservation when you are 1/10 of a mile of the charging station. Basically pull up and wait in the queue.

    So when you're making long trips it makes sense to pay (a little - maybe just $5) for an advanced reservation to make sure you get a spot and be back on the road.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,825
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I think Tesla is going to have a problem with locals "abusing" Superchargers. We installed a CS-90 at our office, free for public use, and our very first "customer" abused it. He showed up every night at around 10:00 pm and filled up his Ford Focus. Yes he would sit in his car for up to two hours. He was doing all of his charging here.

    The intent of making our charge station publicly available was to facilitate road trips, etc., not to give someone who just bought a new car free electricity to the tune of $50 a month. So I kicked him out (although I did say he could come back if he actually needed a fast charge for some reason).

    From what I've heard I'm not the first to kick him out of a charging station... and he has since been spotted doing the very same thing at another public charging station.

    Ultimately the only way to fairly allocate limited resources is to charge for them.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC