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Superchargers Visited

Discussion in 'Wiki' started by Wiki, Mar 2, 2014.

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  1. evp

    evp Nerd

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    Good plan. Driving across Wyoming in the rain at night on a very dark 2-lane hwy trying to do math in my head to determine whether I had any chance of making it to the charger two days after I got the car -- this is not good for your mental health.
     
  2. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    #902 Big Earl, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    We just got back from the Detroit Auto Show in a Model X 90D. We added 8 unique Superchargers on this trip, marked above in red, including the elusive Cleveland Service Center Supercharger. We were in for service yesterday to get an Autopilot camera fixed and they were nice enough to charge it up for us so we could continue on our trip without stopping in Macedonia again.

    My new totals are 26 unique Superchargers in 10 states with 4 rental Teslas. I can’t wait to get our Model 3 and rack up some miles. :)
     
  3. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    Did you plug it in? Only way it counts.
     
  4. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    #904 Big Earl, Jan 23, 2018
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    I didn’t physically plug it in with my own hands, but then again, I’ve let passengers plug in at other Superchargers so that they could experience what it’s like. I requested that they charge the vehicle while I waited and confirmed via the Tesla app that it was charging on the Supercharger (as opposed to charging it on a destination charger). If the rule is that the driver must plug it in, my total will go down by about 5 and I suspect many other people will have to remove locations from their counts, as well. Finally, this was a legitimate Supercharger stop on our trip as we passed though Ohio. We arrived at the service center with 20% and departed with 85%. I think this should count, but I don’t make the rules. :)
     
  5. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    I'm not the supercharger police and to the extent I've ever made any adjustments to reported data it's been because of a user error and not a rules dispute. There's a raging one now about the urban chargers and if you look back a few pages Cleveland specifically because the staff discourage owners from plugging in.
    Each owner is responsible for their own data - what to count and not count. The rules were established in the first post. What you do next is up to you.
     
  6. Bighorn

    Bighorn Former Top Supercharger

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    Cleveland was adamant a couple weeks ago that I not charge there. As others have pointed out, more service centers are getting service superchargers that are not accessible to the general public. Consensus seemed to be we not count them or bother staff to add them to our lists. If Denver service supercharges my car with their new pedestal after working on a contactor update, doesn't seem fair game to add to my list.
     
  7. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    Fair enough. My official count is at 25 unique Superchargers, then.
     
  8. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Running on Empty

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    Yeah I think the situation in Cleveland is no good. I pointed out before that there are other service centers with a similar set up that are not listed on supercharge.info. If anything Cleveland should be removed from there if they are discouraging people from using. It's not listed in the Nav either.

    I was originally against counting urban superchargers as the first few were all in pay parking garages in big cities, but lately they have introduced them in more suburban settings so I think we have to count them. It almost looks as if it is just an alternate supercharger design that they feel is more beneficial in urban/suburban settings. Lynnwood, WA is the location in particular that has changed my mind. There is really nothing different about that location than any other supercharger location, other than the fact they decided to use the urban supercharger design. There are others as well that seem more like typical supercharger locations, such as Riverside, CA.
     
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  9. Half Dollar Bill

    Half Dollar Bill Traveller, teacher, poet, accountant

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    Updated
     
  10. Big Earl

    Big Earl Member

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    Agreed on all counts. Cleveland should be removed from Supercharge.info for consistency since no other service centers are listed and because it isn’t a public charging location.

    I suspect many of the upcoming urban Superchargers will be like Lynnwood, with easily accessible and free-to-access locations. Having some in pay parking garages will add to the challenge of collecting them all.

    Thank you. :)
     
  11. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    Agreed that the Cleveland Service Center shouldn't be counted, or rather, a non-Public location shouldn't be listed as one of our official "must visit" locations. If a Service Center discourages people from using it then it clearly isn't meant for Public use.

    Perhaps the rules at the beginning should be updated to add the term 'Public' as in, "The count of Superchargers Visited is the number of PUBLIC Superchargers that you have visited ..." or even, "the number of 24x7 PUBLIC Superchargers that you have visited ..." If it isn't on the vehicle's Nav screen then it likely shouldn't be required for us to visit.


    That rule clarification would automatically take care of not counting the Cleveland Service Center or any other Service Center that isn't open 24x7 to the Public or any non-public supercharger for that matter. Or add to the rule the clarification that Service Centers are not officially counted as being available similar to the clause that a 'doublet' supercharger (i.e. northbound/southbound near the same exit) are counted as a single visit not individual visits.

    We all know if someone lists Milford, CT northbound and Milford, CT southbound that it counts as a single entry so the Cleveland Service Center could just be considered a bonus visit but not counted toward or against your official count; it would just live with an asterisk next to it and we'd know not to count it toward the total.
     
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  12. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    I feel the Supercharge.info page can still list Cleveland as a supercharger location since it does have one there but perhaps it could be updated on their site to indicate not only "Limited Hours" but also something like "Non-Public" or "By Appt only" which would indicate it is not a 24x7 Public location. Supercharge.info could also be encouraged to list OTHER Service Centers with a supercharger so it is consistent one way or another.

    PlugShare has the Cleveland Service Center listed as a Supercharger location for example. I've communicated with someone at PlugShare about adding new Supercharger locations that are well into the construction phase and they indicated that they don't do this manually and just "get a feed directly from Tesla with the info when a new location is active." That means at one point they were told that the Cleveland Service Center was an official location.

    However, the official Tesla site (and the in-vehicle Nav) doesn't list the Cleveland Service Center as an available Supercharger location. We should try and get some consistency here and it looks like removing Cleveland, and any non-24x7 Service Center supercharger for that matter, from Supercharge.info, PlugShare, as well as our own list would be the way to accomplish this. They are not 24x7 Public locations so it would fit with the idea above about updating the rules. If it isn't listed from the 'mothership' then it should be removed (or listed as non-Public) everywhere.

    Nashville, TN is AT a Service Center but is outside of it and available 24x7 and so is Salt Lake City's Service Center superchargers (and many others) so imho Cleveland's Service Center should be removed at least from our list requirements as that is easy to do and someone can suggest that to Supercharge.info and PlugShare as well.



    I would think any 24x7 Public supercharger location should be counted. The one in Chattanooga is at the Airport in the Long Term Parking lot where parking is free for the first 2 hrs. Is that implying that you shouldn't count it if you flew somewhere and returned 6 hrs later because you had to pay for parking? I think not.

    The Chattanooga location isn't an Urban setup but is still in a pay parking lot and has 24x7 Public access so it should (and is) obviously counted as a viable location. I visited there but was out in well under 2 hrs so I didn't pay but would have counted it in either case. Similarly, you should be able to count a Boston urban supercharger after a 10-minute visit even if you had to pay to park for an entire hour.

    Free or in a pay parking garage location shouldn't matter as long as they are available 24x7.
     
  13. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    <begin rant>

    I would like to lobby for modifying this part of the rules as I feel very strongly that it is either unfair or at least not what was originally intended. I would suggest that if the Driver or any of the Passenger plugs in the vehicle that it should count for that Driver.

    Maybe I pull up to a charger and am still noting stats from the drive for 2 minutes and calculating for another 2 minutes how long to charge while a Passenger has already hopped out and plugged in so we didn't lose 4 minutes of charging time. Is it now a foot-race with all the other Passengers to see WHO can get to the charge port the fastest? If that's the case then I'd park with the Passenger side as close to the curb or wall or shrubs as possible while also having the Child Safety Door Locks engaged to give me the most time possible to plug it in myself. Again ... that just seems a little silly to me.


    The rule is stating that it wouldn't count for filling up your vehicle with gas if you didn't physically operate the nozzle. In that scenario, my wife would never be credited with filling her car when we go on trips because I am always the one who hops out to fill it up even though she paid for it and she got the fuel perks on her card and it is her car.

    It's when you roll up to a hotel or restaurant with a Valet and there happens to be a supercharger 1/4 mile away and THEY drive your vehicle over and plug it in. That to me shouldn't be counted. If you want to get credit for visiting that supercharger then you get to walk the 1/4 mile back from the supercharger. Or maybe in a grey area like that someone asks for clarification from the group and another rule can be modified.


    I don't know of many locations like this but have visited the Newburgh, NY location and it is IN the crowded / congested front corner of a parking lot for a restaurant rather than out in the spacious area of the larger back parking lot. Anyway, if this area suddenly becomes a "Valet Only" parking lot then I feel you should be able to count this as you'd roll up to the Valet which is 25 ft from the charger and they would drive it 25 ft and plug it in for you. How would THAT not be counted if you just drove 4 hrs to get here and maybe it's the only charger you visit all year?

    Maybe you have a gimpy leg but managed to drive 4 hrs and you get out at the entrance but your spouse moves over and drives it 25 ft and they or the Valet plug it in? I'd count it as a visit in each of those scenarios but the rules would clearly not allow me to count any of those as a visit. Again, that seems a little silly to have to be the one who physically plugs it in and maybe some wiggle room in the rules would help.

    Would it help to have an arbitrary distance to cover on foot or bike or skateboard? Such as, if you or someone else moves your car <200 ft to the charger and plugs in then you can count it. Or <500 ft? Something >1/4 mile should probably not be permitted unless you are unable to cover that distance easily. We shouldn't be robots with this and exclude someone who can drive several hundred miles to a charger but has issues covering the 250 ft from the entrance to where the vehicle is parked.


    Now, on a road trip with a buddy or spouse or kid and I drive 150 miles from home to supercharger A then I should get credited for that no matter which of us plugs in. if co-pilot then drives us 150 miles from supercharger A to supercharger B then THEY should get credited for that visit again no matter which one of us plugs in. If co-pilot instead drives 149 miles from supercharger A to a rest stop and I get in and drive 1 mile from the rest stop to supercharger B and plug it in myself then I wouldn't count that as "my" visit since I only drove 1/150th of the distance to get there.

    Time or distance would be up to each person as driving 1 mile of a 7 mile route in NYC at rush hour might take a full hour but then the driver and co-pilot swap and the new driver goes 5 miles in 5 minutes and plugs in to the supercharger. I'd lobby that the person driving the vehicle for the majority of the time (60 of the 65 minutes) would get the credit for the visit to the charger even though they only drove a short portion of the trip (1 of the 7 miles). Most of the time I'm sure time and distance wouldn't make it an issue to determine who should get credit but I'm just trying to think of scenarios that would have the human count it as a visit but a robot looking at the rules would not.


    It also shouldn't matter if it is your vehicle or a loaner or someone else's but the fact that YOU drove to the supercharger and that vehicle got plugged in is what should count whether you the Driver or a Passenger plugged it in. If someone takes my car and drives me around the entire East coast, then I'm certainly not going to count that even if I plugged the car in at each and every charger. To me, the important part of the 'game' is that it is the person who drives the majority of the distance (or time) TO the supercharger who should get credit for the visit. Again, with some wiggle room such as the NYC scenario above.

    I've had a friend or two on a road trip drive of a full day but in each case, I had already visited those superchargers so they counted so when my friend drove for several chargers in a row and plugged it in then it was moot as they already counted for me. It could have counted for THEM as a supercharger visit using my logic that it gets credited to the person who drives the majority of the way to get there.


    We are all trusting each other's count of visits while still trying to honor the rules that are stated and it's a pleasure to see some folks have a visit removed from their count after the scenario is discussed and not trying to 'pump up' their count will false visits. To me, whether the rule(s) are clarified or not I will still count a supercharger visit if I'm the one driving the majority of the distance to reach it no matter who plugs it in. I've driven well over 95% of the 63,000 miles on my vehicle in the past 21 months so I almost never need to worry that someone else is driving 51% of the distance to a new supercharger visit but would gladly stand behind my suggestion that I wouldn't count that as I didn't drive the majority of the way to reach it.

    </end rant>
     
  14. Bighorn

    Bighorn Former Top Supercharger

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    @Darren S

    All interesting points that most of the leaders don't really cogitate much on since we're largely solo efforts. I have wondered how a married couple would count chargers if they were both of the competitive ilk. We will obviously have to revisit some of this when we have robochargers plugging us in:)
     
  15. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    #915 Darren S, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    Thanks. Fortunately, pretty much all of my road trips are solo or I've done the route before and having someone else get the pleasure of driving the car doesn't change my count. I was just trying to think of scenarios that might crop up or maybe they already have and we certainly don't want to discourage anyone from joining the game when sharing a car or such.

    Robo-chargers ... good point. Or perhaps even wireless charging where you just park over a charging pad in a parking lot of a hotel and let it charge slowly for 12+ hrs (not a standard supercharger per se but trying to cover future expansion).


    Is there a general rule of thumb about how long is considered "appropriate" to stay at a supercharger to count it as a visit? I haven't yet visited the very populated areas of NYC or LA or San Fran but you could technically visit, plug in for 10 seconds, unplug, and drive to the next one. I've tried to not do this but make each visit meaningful with at least a 10-minute charge and my average is closer to 30 minutes. Since I end up taking some pics of the new location and noting some stats from the drive from the previous one then it takes me about 10 minutes for all of that anyway.

    If Elon does enable this as a game / feature in the car itself then I could see some people just visiting them as fast as possible. Naturally, if you are only charging for 10 seconds then you didn't really need to stop in the first place. This isn't in the rules but I don't know that it needs to be either. If you are stopping and visiting a new place and plug in then it counts no matter how brief you are there but I was just curious.[/user]
     
  16. Darren S

    Darren S Active Member

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    It's quite easy. It's whoever gets to the Driver's seat first. It's the same game of calling "Shotgun" but now you DON'T want the co-pilot seat so it can get interesting. Similar rules such as "no calling 'Driver!' before walking out of the house or not calling it when not within sight of the car."

    It adds all sorts of twists such as purposefully leaving on the tv and walking out to the car and the other person calls "Driver!" even though you are right next to the car but you ask if they can turn off the tv. When they come back outside you quickly shout "Driver!" and then hop in. It's cruel and mean but definitely adds a bit of fun to things.

    It also helps to hide the other person's keyfob and then change the password on the app so they can't unlock or drive it without the key. Also cruel and mean but when you want to be the one driving to the new supercharger it can get downright competitive.

    Fortunately, I get to do almost all the driving but I could picture some of those scenes now.
     
  17. cpa

    cpa Active Member

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    In community property states does the husband get credit if the wife drives solo to a new Supercharger, or vice versa? What if the car were purchased with separate property rather than community property?

    But seriously, the rules should be simple. If the wife is "of the competitive ilk," then the arrangement should be between the spouses, and they should be on the honor system to comply. Forget who drives. Forget who plugs in or unplugs. Forget gaming the system by H plugging in for 30 seconds, having W unplug, change stalls and plug in herself for the 30-minute charge. Forget the 15-second plug-in just to put another notch in your belt.

    There are those whose sense of self-worth is defined by being #1. Winning at any cost. Gaming the system and blatant cheating are OK, if it helps me win.
     
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  18. JSergeant

    JSergeant Member

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    • Helpful x 2
  19. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Running on Empty

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  20. Bighorn

    Bighorn Former Top Supercharger

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    Thanks @JSergeant ! Didn’t want to ask and telegraph any moves:)

    @Darren S You don’t perchance have siblings:) ? Sometimes I’ll plug in just long enough to see amps flow, but I usually need some kWs or have some screen checking to tend to. If you’re doing both sides of a N/S pair, out of compulsion since only one counts, there’s one obvious scenario where you’d have an abbreviated stop.

    @cpa Good thing none of us are that competitive :)
     
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