Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

[Bet TSLA]

Other than a few complaints about "I shouldn't have gotten this letter", this entire thread consists mostly of doomsayers spelling out their version of doom for free supercharging. This is foolish.

Tesla has a large variety of technical and social solutions to overuse of superchargers that can get them by for quite a few years. For one thing, Tesla has intimate knowledge of exactly who is causing problems: they know who leaves their car parked when it is done charging and there are people waiting; they know who uses superchargers near their homes and rarely charges at home; they know exactly who is needlessly causing people to wait or leave when they need a charge.

They are perfectly capable of mitigating the problem in several simple ways
- consequences: identified violators are informed immediately that they are causing a problem and what the consequences will be (play over the radio "We notice that you are regularly using this supercharger in lieu of your available home charging. If you continue to do this you will be limited to stall 1A for several weeks, and it will charge at half the usual rate. Please call the following number if you think this message is in error." and follow up with similar e-mail.)
- public shaming: alternative consequence might be installing speakers at the superchargers and playing something embarrassing (Jack Benny skits?) while the violator charges, ceasing charging if the car is left with nobody in it
- other consequences: "We notice that you have prevented others from charging because you left your car parked after it was charged. This unacceptably reduces the efficiency of this shared resource. If you do this again your car will charge only when you are present."
- automatic parking at superchargers, along with inviting waiting drivers to remove the charging cable from charged cars so that Tesla can move them out of the way if possible

There are many other possibilities; these are only illustrative. They can customize their solution to the individual, quite precisely. Notice that none of them renege on the promise of free supercharging, they just enforce politeness through technology. This doesn't require written policy, explanations to people who are too stingy or dumb to understand, nor stupid letters to people who have nothing to do with the problem. It's mostly technology, something Tesla knows how to do very well.

And I'm sure they've thought of all these things already (and many more), and are considering what they'll implement when, and how they'll do it. I find it bizarre that most of the comments here may as well begin with an implicit "Let's assume that Tesla is very, very stupid and hasn't considered the implications of their technology at all...." Just because they can't write and send a letter properly doesn't mean they can't make a system run like magic.

 

[bonnie]

But go ahead and minimize it if it makes ya feel better - there will be no shortage of fanbois/gurls to support your position.

Sorry, that's not worthy of a response.

Sorry Nigel but your tone strikes me as condescending and dismissive.

I realize that it is often difficult to interpret "tone" from written words but your posts in this thread as well as your related thread/poll title "Letter-gate..." leave me with the impression you think this whole discussion is ridiculous - the fact that anyone would even give it a second thought much less be annoyed by receiving said email from Tesla is annoying to you.

Again, I could well be way off the mark but that's what it looks like to me.

Mike

So you think being told "But go ahead and minimize it if it makes ya feel better - there will be no shortage of fanbois/gurls to support your position" IS worthy of a response? It was a slam. C'mon. He responded to every actual point in the post.

I'm missing how Nigel was condescending by refusing to engage it that silliness, but the post he was replying to was NOT condescending by name calling.

 

[Todd Burch]

My thoughts on this:

1) The letter should have gone out to everyone, and instead of being worded in an accusatory way, just reminded everyone that etiquette is to charge at home when able.

2) If Tesla changes their policy as to who can charge, when, or how much, that will likely be a very bad thing. Many 85s and Supercharging upgrades were sold on the statement that Supercharging was free for life, without the qualifier that "non-local Supercharging" was free for life. I could very easily see a class-action lawsuit coming from owners if they changed that policy. I'm already a little pissed that they changed their Ranger policy such that I now have to pay something like $2 per mile to have my car transported to the service center--the nearest of which is several hundred miles away. (I guess I will drive it if I can). Worse, I could see so many owners getting pissed off about a Supercharger change in policy that they'd never consider a Tesla again and would not recommend it to others. We don't want that to happen to Tesla...that would be very unfortunate.

3) If cost of electricity to Tesla is the problem (which I doubt), then they didn't think the policy through, and their only option is to change the policy for future buyers (or get those solar panels up asap). If the wait at Superchargers is the problem, then again they should gave thought that through better and should build Superchargers at an even faster pace to keep up with their own sales.

 

[Andyw2100]

One incredibly simple thing Tesla could do to help alleviate the problem of people leaving their cars unattended after Supercharging has completed would be to add notification ability to the android app.

I understand that the iPhone app can receive notifications as Supercharging nears completion. (If this is not correct, it is certainly something that could easily be added, since the iPhone app --CAN-- receive notifications.) The android app, on the other hand, can't receive notifications at all. The polls that have been done on TMC indicate roughly half the users here use android phones. This is a very large group of people left having to guess when their car's charging is going to be complete if they have left the car unattended.

This wouldn't, of course, solve the problem being discussed. On the other hand, it's such a simple step that would solve a small part of the problem, why not just do it?

 

[dsm363]

I received the email, and will admit I'm fired up about it. (I started reading this thread, but decided to respond before I get even more irritated). It might be Elon Musk's contention and desire for SC's to only be used for distance traveling, but that wasn't in my literature, documents or contracts when I ordered, purchased, paid for and took delivery of my MS 10 months, and 36,500 miles ago. Fast, free and forever was what was stated. Sure, the impediment to mass acceptance of EV's in general is where can I charge when I am not within range of my home (or office). However, I bought my MS because of the promise of SC's. The closest SC was Vacaville, which is about 45 miles away. Manteca opened within the last few months, and it's about 55 miles away. I use the Fremont SC quite a bit, and it's about 100 miles away.

After receiving that Tesla letter yesterday, I left the area this morning, heading to Monterey today. I topped up at the Gilroy SC (~140 miles away), then heading to Monterey, and returning, with another stop in Gilroy. BTW, the crappy Nav system said to drive slowly from Monterey to Manteca (It predicted 6% remaining). That's the stupidest suggestion. I SC'd in Gilroy to 225 miles, and then hit Manteca to get 220 miles range.

I can and do charge at home. Tesla sold me the dual charger and HPWC, but the SC network is a convenience, and I have paid for the promise of that convenience. My MS is sitting out in my driveway right now, getting ready to charge from about 175 miles to about 235.

Tesla, STOP trying to change your story after the fact. I use the SC when I feel it is important to quickly recharge my car. I'm not going to drive it home with little charge remaining, relinquishing it to spend the night being charged at home, and it not being available before the morning, for an unanticipated trip.

Do you really want to alienate your customer base? I haven't seen a manual on how to piss your valued customers off, and alienate them, but you certainly have started with the first couple of chapters. Nowhere was using a SC labeled as an abuse, until Elon's hint at the letter alleging abuse. I like Elon, and think he's visionary, but ELON, YOU"RE LISTENING TO THE WRONG PEOPLE ABOUT THIS, OR YOU'RE NOT THINKING THROUGH IT. While I love my Tesla, limiting me to using SC's where you deem as acceptable is one way to ensure my leaving the flock, and TO DISCONTINUE BEING A GOODWILL AMBASSADOR OF tESLA.

Finally, just because you're trying to change your policy of SC use, that policy was NEVER a policy that was between Tesla and I. My MVPA doesn't state any limitation. Should you try to enforce SC use to what YOU deem as acceptable will surely negatively affect Tesla in the long run. Don't be Penny Wise And Pound Foolish!


Scotty

(An irritated Tesla owner who was the recipient of the Tesla 'SC abuse letter, includint the stupid assumption that I'm hogging the SC

Telsa obviously sent out emails to people that shouldn't have gotten it. I wouldn't consider what you are doing abusing the system since you can charge at home and always do when you have the time. Use the network when you need to as its intended for. If Tesla does anything more than send an email then get upset but one email could very well be a mistake on their part.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

So you think being told "But go ahead and minimize it if it makes ya feel better - there will be no shortage of fanbois/gurls to support your position" IS worthy of a response? It was a slam. C'mon. He responded to every actual point in the post.

I'm missing how Nigel was condescending by refusing to engage it that silliness, but the post he was replying to was NOT condescending by name calling.

My impressions are formed by his entire body of posts in this thread and related thread/poll. I made no comment on whether he should have or should not have commented to the post he was replying too.

You seem to only take exception to what I quoted. I only quoted that because it was the last line in the last message Nigel posted. I accept that you may disagree with my impressions. As I stated in my post, I may have misinterpreted intent.

Mike

 

[dsm363]

Telsa should start charging for every minute your car sits plugged in above 100% or whatever level was chosen for a full charge. That would help with people blocking stations for longer than necessary.

 

[Nevek]

Telsa obviously sent out emails to people that shouldn't have gotten it. I wouldn't consider what you are doing abusing the system since you can charge at home and always do when you have the time. Use the network when you need to as its intended for. If Tesla does anything more than send an email then get upset but one email could very well be a mistake on their part.

Based on my usage and comments in another thread from Napabill, I suspect that they took the percentage of total supercharger power used versus home or other charging over an unknown period of time without taking supercharger distance into account. That distance element seems like it could be the missing filter that caused some erroneous emails if so.

About ⅔ of the power I used over the past three months was from (distant) superchargers on road trips to CA. I got the letter, although I don't charge at nearby superchargers.

 

[NigelM]

Sorry Nigel but your tone strikes me as condescending and dismissive.

I realize that it is often difficult to interpret "tone" from written words but your posts in this thread as well as your related thread/poll title "Letter-gate..." leave me with the impression you think this whole discussion is ridiculous - the fact that anyone would even give it a second thought much less be annoyed by receiving said email from Tesla is annoying to you.

I think everyone here agrees that some folks apparently received a notice they shouldn't have. Most of the upset seems me to be from folks that didn't even receive it and now this thread grew to a point where I'm accused of FUD for pointing out the issue isn't as big as many think. There's fear and uncertainty all over the place but not brought by me.

 

[Jeff P]

I'm just another blowhard with an opinion, but while the tone of the letter wasn't great, I assume that the intent was to remind people of the long distance driving goal made possible by superchargers. I pair that with reports here where it's hard to get a charge because of excessive traffic in certain regions, and I get the intent. I've never seen more than one car at my closest charger, but when I do venture out longer distances, I'll be down on the whole thing if I can't quickly charge and go.

I realize that spending this kind of coin may make you feel a little entitled. I get it. But let's not act like Escalade owners parking in the energy efficient spots at Ikea.

 

[purplewalt]

People:

Can We all just get along?


Please?

 

[deonb]

Tesla likely assumed 5% (as it is roughly right now for Model S fleet) and $0.10/kWh electricity. That would work out exactly to $500. The 10% I have refers to a Census survey that shows ~10% of miles travelled are trips of 100 miles or longer (I will have to dig up the exact percentage, it was mentioned in other threads).

Tesla may have assumed it'll be for trips longer than that (maybe 200 miles for example) and that might move the percentage to closer to the 5% it is today.

Tesla basically used one of Elon's very optimistic calculators... you know the one where you save $100 per hour by charging at home.

Except this time Tesla is the one who has to pay for it.

 

[Max*]

Tesla basically used one of Elon's very optimistic calculators... you know the one where you save $100 per hour by charging at home.

Except this time Tesla is the one who has to pay for it.

I agree.

stopcrazyapps assumptions seem valid, but that's too optimistic for real life.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

People:

Can We all just get along?


Please?

I doubt very much that people will get along, until Tesla clarified the situation by a lot.

The phrase "can we all just get along" was I believe in response to the '92 LA riots. Well… here we are in 2015 and people still don't get along, as Ferguson unfortunately shows.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I agree.

stopcrazyapps assumptions seem valid, but that's too optimistic for real life.

That's perhaps true, but the exact numbers are not the issue. I think my general point still stands. It is pretty obvious that the cost of supporting daily charging+long distance charging is an order of magnitude or two more compared to long distance only. Tesla can cover long distance with some tweaking of how they account for the cost (whether it be the $500 or the $1300). They can't do the same for daily charging ($31000).

I think that is the crux of the problem Tesla is seeing might develop (the other one is congestion, unrelated to electricity costs).

 

[Electricfan]

Raul Julia's line in "Presumed Innocent" says it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtcMv4txl6s&feature=youtu.be

The deep affection of the company's owners is unique among carmakers and they deliberately wiped out some of it with this letter. Hope they figure it out and send an apology email.

 

[Andyw2100]

Seriously Mike, you can see from the time stamps and the post merge that's not true. Why are you trying to pick a personal fight?

I think this may just be some confusion over the timing, blowing up into more than it should be.

Nigel--Your original post was made six minutes before Mike's. On my phone I can't see what time you updated it, but based on what you wrote elsewhere I'm going to assume it was almost immediately.

But if Mike had started his response after seeing your post, he wouldn't have seen the update before completing it. The quote he used would have appeared to have been the last thing you wrote.

So Nigel--I think you should give Mike the benefit of the doubt that he was attempting to quote the last part of your post, and Mike--you should understand why it didn't look that way to Nigel, and thus why he took issue with it.

You two can still disagree about the other stuff, but I really think the quote stuff was just confusion over the timing.

Edit: By the way, I only quoted Nigel because I'm posting from my phone and haven't figured out a good way to copy and paste, multi-quote, etc. If I had been at my computer I would have included a quote from Mike too.

 

[NigelM]

You two can still disagree about the other stuff, but I really think the quote stuff was just confusion over the timing.

Thanks Andy. We already PM'd and I think we both got something out of it. This is a hot button for many folks and we should avoid dismissing it but also definitely not overcook it.

I guess when Tesla releases the new firmware, we'll have something else to focus on. ;-)

 

[MrClown]

I guess when Tesla releases the new firmware, we'll have something else to focus on. ;-)

This email was clearly Tesla's clever attempt at shifting our focus away from the lane-keeping update. A brilliant strategy!

 

[Andyw2100]

Thanks Andy. We already PM'd and I think we both got something out of it.

I'm very glad to hear that!