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Surge in Electricity Tariff
- Thread starter Basicbob
- Start date
OfficialMark_H
VLOGGER
Stranger Dings
Member
If you can, an off peak tariff like Octopus Go can give big savings.
Unfortunately, we are all going to be feeling the squeeze of higher energy prices. On the flip side, I’m glad that I’ve not got to pay diesel prices at the moment. It is getting close to £1.40 a litre!
SpareHeadOne
Member
Not in this case, the UK's biggest source of electricity generation capacity is from natural gas (almost 30%) which means electricity prices are linked to gas prices and they haven't come down as much over the summer as they usually do.
On top of that, they'll go back up in the winter months as we use it for both heating and power.
Last year's report (using 2018 actual figures) has gas generation as more expensive per MWh than wind and almost twice the price of solar - see section 4 here https://assets.publishing.service.g...7/electricity-generation-cost-report-2020.pdf
Keep in mind that gas prices have gone up considerably since that report was written, but solar and wind will have stayed pretty much the same and you might want to consider changing your view.
We do need marginal generation, we don't have sufficient grid storage - like hydro storage at Electric Mountain - to bridge the gaps when we have insufficient wind or solar for demand, but that's what the "smart grid" capabilities of electric vehicles could help with in future.
Franky we need more generation from sources with less volatile prices or more fixed ones, which means "green energy"; wind, solar, tidal, nuclear, etc.
I attended a lecture at bath uni a few years back on the subject of renewables and nuclear pricing versus gas for power generation.
Nuclear is as near as you can get to free at the point of generation yet the up front capital expenditure is 10 times that of a gas power station. Add onto that the fact that the build of gas stations has historically been fully subsidised and the price charged per kWh generated is linked directly to the cost of fuel used and it’s impossible not to make money.
Take nuclear where there’s a huge bill to build it with no subsidies, higher end of life cost and no control of the rates during operation and you can see why people don’t go that route. If I remember rightly the Hinckley C deal is 40p per kWh of electricity produced for exactly this reason.
If it wasn’t for the environmental appeal wind power would be a similar economic disaster and that’s before you factor in the alarming regularity they are setting on fire and engineers are being killed during maintenance. Sure they are cheap to run but they are not cheap to manufacture or install, especially offshore where companies are building custom boats for £300m at a rate of knots to keep up with demand.
As a country we do need a reliable generation infrastructure based on nuclear and renewables if we’re going to get away from burning fossil fuels.
I’m involved in pulling oil out the ground but I’m hopeful that in my lifetime we will stop burning it and just use it for its endless engineering and medical uses.
Nuclear is as near as you can get to free at the point of generation yet the up front capital expenditure is 10 times that of a gas power station. Add onto that the fact that the build of gas stations has historically been fully subsidised and the price charged per kWh generated is linked directly to the cost of fuel used and it’s impossible not to make money.
Take nuclear where there’s a huge bill to build it with no subsidies, higher end of life cost and no control of the rates during operation and you can see why people don’t go that route. If I remember rightly the Hinckley C deal is 40p per kWh of electricity produced for exactly this reason.
If it wasn’t for the environmental appeal wind power would be a similar economic disaster and that’s before you factor in the alarming regularity they are setting on fire and engineers are being killed during maintenance. Sure they are cheap to run but they are not cheap to manufacture or install, especially offshore where companies are building custom boats for £300m at a rate of knots to keep up with demand.
As a country we do need a reliable generation infrastructure based on nuclear and renewables if we’re going to get away from burning fossil fuels.
I’m involved in pulling oil out the ground but I’m hopeful that in my lifetime we will stop burning it and just use it for its endless engineering and medical uses.
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It matters not what the energy we use costs to generate the people with the power will always be able to provide an explanation to justify why it costs us so much, there is always a reason why prices to the consumer must rise, demand V supply, costs of infrastructure and maintenance, environmental reasons, the truth is people economising causes prices to rise.
People are reducing their demand on energy, equipment is designed to consume less energy, more efficient systems, LEDs instead of incandescent etc - so if each household reduces their consumption then the energy companies earn less - and they are not going to wear that, every company wants to increase profits year on year so the cost per KWhr is increased to offset the consumers reduced consumption. (plus a bit extra)
I suspect Electricity is substantially rising because the fat cats at the top of the energy companies can see the growth in the electric vehicle market, they know most vehicles will be charged at home overnight and that's too good an opportunity to miss out on, cheap overnight deals will end and I also suspect the government will raise the price of the VAT on energy as they loose the tax on petrol/Diesel as sales diminish.
The smokescreen - which is the government encouraging the nation to conserve energy, to be green, waste less, recycle everything is just that - a smokescreen - they say they will be carbon zero by 2050 - you know they wont, Actions speak louder than words - so if you want to encourage clean energy then you don't cut or reduce those subsidies that were introduced to drive the clean energy drive.
Removal of the FIT tariffs for Solar.
Abolish the generation payments for those generating excess energy at home and feeding back to the grid
Home battery storage - increase the VAT on batteries from 5% to 20%
Remove the congestion charge exemption for full electric vehicles
Reduction in BIK for all electric vehicles
Remove/ reduce the grants that encouraged people to insulate homes better
Reduce/remove the grant towards home charge points
Smart Meters - These are designed to make the energy companies a lot more money - they are able to do away with the meter readers so a substantial saving - however, they have always justified these readers by saying they also carry out visual safety checks on the meters - and not one of them have a gas safe or Electricity qualification that qualifies them to carry out such checks.
Once the majority are on smart meters then variable charging is to be introduced - so peak demand will attract peak prices - eat your Dinner at the normal time and you will pay dearly for the privilege.
People are reducing their demand on energy, equipment is designed to consume less energy, more efficient systems, LEDs instead of incandescent etc - so if each household reduces their consumption then the energy companies earn less - and they are not going to wear that, every company wants to increase profits year on year so the cost per KWhr is increased to offset the consumers reduced consumption. (plus a bit extra)
I suspect Electricity is substantially rising because the fat cats at the top of the energy companies can see the growth in the electric vehicle market, they know most vehicles will be charged at home overnight and that's too good an opportunity to miss out on, cheap overnight deals will end and I also suspect the government will raise the price of the VAT on energy as they loose the tax on petrol/Diesel as sales diminish.
The smokescreen - which is the government encouraging the nation to conserve energy, to be green, waste less, recycle everything is just that - a smokescreen - they say they will be carbon zero by 2050 - you know they wont, Actions speak louder than words - so if you want to encourage clean energy then you don't cut or reduce those subsidies that were introduced to drive the clean energy drive.
Removal of the FIT tariffs for Solar.
Abolish the generation payments for those generating excess energy at home and feeding back to the grid
Home battery storage - increase the VAT on batteries from 5% to 20%
Remove the congestion charge exemption for full electric vehicles
Reduction in BIK for all electric vehicles
Remove/ reduce the grants that encouraged people to insulate homes better
Reduce/remove the grant towards home charge points
Smart Meters - These are designed to make the energy companies a lot more money - they are able to do away with the meter readers so a substantial saving - however, they have always justified these readers by saying they also carry out visual safety checks on the meters - and not one of them have a gas safe or Electricity qualification that qualifies them to carry out such checks.
Once the majority are on smart meters then variable charging is to be introduced - so peak demand will attract peak prices - eat your Dinner at the normal time and you will pay dearly for the privilege.
phil4
Member
You sound very cynical... but I fear you're right on ever point, and I entirely agree.
The best I think you can do, is generate as much of your energy as you can (solar, battery, groundsource heatpumps, airsource heatpumps, wind if you can), so you're less at the mercy of the power companies.
In that list there is no generation from battery, ground source or airsource heat pumps of course ... realistically, unless you live on a farm where perhaps some wind might be feasible, you are down to one source i.e. solar.
Which is probably fair enough and it will drive the increase in tech to distribute load more evenly. A fully smart controlled supply will be able to be much more efficient and enable us to avoid having to build ever more large scale power stations. Peak demand already attracts peak prices ... and low demand times allow price reductions e.g. Octopus Go to charge your EV at a third of the standard rate... or Economy 7 or whatever. The only difference is that when consumers without varied pricing (without smart control) are paying a fixed rate there is no pressure to modify usage. With varied pricing there is.
MrBadger
Badger out
And, cost wise (environmentally and for some availability being a different matter) the main advantage that a heat pump does is help restore some parity of cost vs gas. eg gas at 4p/kWh will require a heat pump with COP of 4 (ie quite high) to give similar energy cost if electricity was 16p/kWh.
I buy power from Good Energy and was just about to move away from them (because they are expensive). However they have just announced a Green Driver Tariff which gives off peak rates of either 5 hours at 5p/kWh or 7 hours at 7p/kWh fixed until June 2023. Now with that the day time rate is high (around 23p/kWh) and you do need a smart meter to have this tariff.
For me this works - we have three electric vehicles and an electric storage AGA to heat, all of which can be done at night. So I went for the 7Hour/7p deal. There is no exit penalty so if something better comes along it is easy to change.
Fortunate to have three phase in the house so ordered a Zappi 3 Phase charger to replace our existing 32A single phase one. Then even if the Tes is completely empty I can get a full overnight charge on the low rate.
phil4
Member
I totally agree... but those surely assist you in using your own generated power.. the battery in when, and the other two in more efficiently.
It's the cost of gas that's currently driving uk energy prices. It's at a 16 year high and the carbon credits to offset at also far more expensive. If anyone was ever in any doubt we need to switch to renewables which produce electricity in the UK for predictable prices, rather than on a volatile international oil market that funds dictatorships.
OPEC has allowed prices to climb a demand increased as pandemic controls loosened, really just kinda out of spite. Expect them to keep cycles of punishment costs as renewable grow and reduce their influence. They will lets them climb to high levels then drop them rapidly to undermine any consensus to invest in other sources.
Meanwhile, party time in Saudi ...
OPEC has allowed prices to climb a demand increased as pandemic controls loosened, really just kinda out of spite. Expect them to keep cycles of punishment costs as renewable grow and reduce their influence. They will lets them climb to high levels then drop them rapidly to undermine any consensus to invest in other sources.
Meanwhile, party time in Saudi ...
Saudi oil giant Aramco sees profits soar by almost 300%
The results were boosted by a rise in oil prices as demand recovers after the pandemic.
www.bbc.co.uk
What, like Piper Alpha? Or Deepwater Horizon?
Never mind the millions dying because of fossil fuel driven climate change?
Climate Change Linked to 5 Million Deaths a Year, New Study Shows
Almost 10% of global deaths can be attributed to abnormally hot or cold temperatures, according to new research linking extreme weather to mortality
www.bloomberg.com
Well, I'd have never guessed.....
Cnixon
Member
I know I'm cynical but after 28 years as a civil servant, and 65 yrs old I have seen Oh so many times the governments rhetoric and its deeds, what i do know is that the people that make the bold claims, announce the new strategies do so in hope of being even a bit right and if not then by the time its challenged they are long out of office and wield out some pompous puppet to explain they actually almost achieved their aims - If it were not for Global events beyond their control.
@phil4
@phil4
OfficialMark_H
VLOGGER
After my first year, I accepted a good price, about 3p per Kw more but still only 13p with a daily charge of 19p. This was inclusive of VAT.
About a month later they said I hadn’t accepted and put me on a higher price again inclusive of VAT.
Now I look at my account and it states the price excluding VAT.
I have religiously updated my meter reading on the last day of the month, then in About the 23rd July they sent me a DD request for £134 when I’ve only used 350 Kw last month and I’m already in credit.
OctopusEnergy take over on Saturday.
I've been with Octopus for over 2 years, their Customer Service isn't great but whose is these days but they are highly competitive and are shaking up the Energy Market. You only have to look at how many other Suppliers are mimicking GO, as someone once said Imitation is the most sincere form of Flattery.
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