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Surprised myself. I think the 85D is actually the best value (over 70D and P85D)

Discussion in 'Model S' started by cryptyk, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. cryptyk

    cryptyk Member

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    I was NOT expecting this.

    After a 24 hour test drive in the 70D yesterday, I put a deposit down and have a week to change things. The store asked me to also take the P85D and 85D for 24 hours each to make sure I really wanted the 70D. Those bastards!

    My impressions, focused on performance:
    (Context: I had a BMW M5, an Audi S4, and an MV Agusta F4-1000 previously)
    The 70D is fast, in a luxury sedan kind of way. It gets off the line really well, but the power really starts to taper off around freeway speeds. Passing on the freeway leaves something to be desired.
    The P85D is absurd. I literally haven't felt anything like it before. I actually used profanity the first time I launched it. All alone in the car, a grown man swearing at nobody because it was so fast. Again, it tapers off at high freeway speeds, but passes well up to around 100MPH. The 30k premium is a bit steep, though.
    The 85D is the surprise underdog here. I expected the 70D to be "fast enough", and the $10k difference to the 85D to be lacking. "Besides," I told myself, "if you want fast, just upgrade to the P85D"
    What I realized is that the performance difference between the 70D and 85D is WAY more noticeable than between the 85D and P85D. AND, the more noticeable difference comes at the bargain price of just $10k, PLUS you get a bit more range as a bonus.

    Seriously - If you think the 85D is the red-headed stepchild in the family, I encourage you to take all three out for a spin. I'm thinking the 85D is actually the sweet spot!
     
  2. spentan

    spentan Active Member

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    Interesting,

    It will be even more interesting to see the specs on model X
     
  3. tezzla

    tezzla Member

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    I think you're right. I tell people that the car to buy is the S85D, it's fast enough for 95% and much cheaper then the P85D. Although I wouldn't trade my P85D, it's really overkill on the power level (for most drivers).
     
  4. vitaliy

    vitaliy Member

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    hmm... how about - get 70D, invest $10,000 + savings on sales tax/insurance, wait 3-4 years for prices go down and get yourself something like P150Q?
    PS: I love what Tesla is doing and I want you to give them more money now, but 70D is better value in my opinion ;0
     
  5. kmtl

    kmtl Member

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    I think your analysis is spot-on...since it reinforces my choice of the 85D. The P has dual market roles...one is delivering a halo car for those who always go straight to the top and aren't bothered by the cost, and two is as a high price bogey to make buyers feel smart by buying the next model down. That was me :)

    The 70D is well positioned relative to the old 60, and will make buyers feel smart if they really want a loaded car and are willing to settle for just fast enough.
    So each model makes their buyers feel like they absolutely made the right choice. I know I did
     
  6. ZachShahan

    ZachShahan Member

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    Interesting, especially since that is counter to the general conclusion I've seen (as I think you imply).

    Curious now to compare the 70D & 85D.
     
  7. ahurst

    ahurst Member

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    Hmm...I haven't had a chance to test drive both at high speeds...I'll have to do that.
     
  8. cryptyk

    cryptyk Member

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    Make sure you drive all three as close together as possible. I wasn't surprised so much that the 85D felt faster than the 70D. I was REALLY surprised at how small the gap felt between the 85D and the P85D, though.

    Also, holy **** - you're on a list of 20 people including Musk, Bloomberg, and Obama? Atta boy!
     
  9. ahurst

    ahurst Member

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    Do you happen to remember the level of charge of each model when you drove them?
     
  10. evjc

    evjc Member

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    +1
    You verified and reinforced my decision to get an 85D (currently in production). :biggrin:
     
  11. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    In the sales game, that is referred to as "Just take the puppy home for the weekend, then decide." :)
     
  12. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Hah,, that's the evil psychology of the sales process. BTW you can (or at least could) call Tesla and ask to skip the second-guessing period.
     
  13. cryptyk

    cryptyk Member

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    I charged each to the line between daily and trip. I think that's 90%?
     
  14. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    The 85D is much faster than the 70D and has a longer range yet only modest price increase. It's clearly a better value than the 70D if you can swing it. The P85D is better if you have to have the fastest and for this particular car you plan to do most of your driving stop and go. I don't think there's a car on the planet that will beat the P85D in stop light to stop light performance without making a major ruckus. Even the GTR has to use launch control or you have to hold the revs manually to get the jump at light on the P85D and even then it would be hit or miss while the P85D will nail it, silently and drawing less attention, every time.

    If however you're driving is mostly highway, then there's very little performance difference between the P85D and the 85D. That's the current state of things. If Tesla comes up with a software upgrade that provides the power they were specing before removing it from the website, I would probably change my answer but at this point it's qualified depending on the kind of driving you're doing.

    Regardless of any qualifications, I don't think you could go wrong with the 85D. Still 0-60 in 4 seconds and decent highway passing speed consistent with the claimed/speced hp.
     
  15. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    As a 70D owner I do concur with the OP that the place the 85D really excels is freeway passing speeds.

    With the 70D the massive acceleration does drop as you approach those speeds. For me it's not that big of a deal because the 70D is plenty fast even at those speeds. Maybe it would have mattered more if the speed limit around me was 70, and not 60. I hit 70 all the time, and even with the 70D I'm constantly fighting myself for wanting to blow past it. I generally don't drive more than 10 over.

    I'd definitely say the 10K is not wasted money especially if you can routinely take advantage of it. It also seems like there is no longer the handling difference between the P85D and the 85D that they're supposedly used to be. It used to feel like the 85 was the compromise, but the 85D of today is really no compromise.

    With that being said for me the 70D was the right car. In my day to day driving I don't even get on the freeway, and when I'm on the freeway my biggest gripe is tire noise. I also know from observation that a lot of you are driving your Tesla's in the middle or the right lane down the freeway. You are because its MASSIVELY more efficient at those speeds. I do that as well not just for efficiency, but for the quieter ride.

    I'm going to take some of that $10K I saved, and spend it on some foam insulated tires down the road. Anything left over will go to Solar for my house.

    It's also important to note that I'm not coming from an M5. If I was coming from an M5 it would be 85D all the way. I'm coming from a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited, and I don't think I need to run the numbers to know the 70D is insanely faster than it between 50 and 80.
     
  16. Scoper

    Scoper Member

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    As I mentioned in your other post, I was sure you'd arrive at that conclusion!
    My context: BMW 545, Porsche 911 C4, Triumph Daytona 675

    Similar backgrounds, huh? ;)
     
  17. travwill

    travwill Member

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    To each their own, and lets not exaggerate the word much though - at start 0-60, the 85D is .8 second faster, that is hardly noticeable, 0-30 it is probably less even which is used more often. For range it advertises 30 miles more max but there are times at lower speeds where it gets almost exactly the same. So again, it depends on the locale, driving habits, etc that all impact it. 13% or $10,000 more for the above isn't justified for many people for the reasons above - don't see the value if don't need it.
     
  18. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    "Value" is a pretty complicated term; I think a lot of what is most valuable is in the eye of the beholder so it's not surprising that different people have different answers.

    By the most common measure of things of value delivered for price, I would think the 70D would generally win...although of course as I said, it depends on what you value.

    But buying cars is about a lot more than value. While the 70D is a great car and I'd be more than happy to consider one as a second car, for our primary car I want as much battery as I can get. (Well, up to a point; but we're not at that point yet). There have been a few trips that I couldn't have done with the 70D; and others that I could have but I wouldn't have liked cutting things so close. That's entirely aside from the extra acceleration, charging speed and longevity.

    It the price differential matters, go for the 70D and you receive great value. If you need to take a trip it can't make, you can always use another car or rent or something; that should be rare and likely cost less than the price difference. But if you can easily afford the difference and you are all-in on driving electric, I can't imagine anybody regretting the 85kWh option. At least not until the Supercharger network is significantly more built out.
     
  19. No2DinosaurFuel

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    For those who argue for more supercharger to make the 70D trip doable, i would agrue with the 85D you might be able to skip every other while the 70D you might not. So that is something to consider. Again i can repeat all the other benefits the 85D have over 7pD but that would be superfluous. Ill let other people come up with their own conclusion base on their individual needs. I know what i want and there is not much other can say to sway me... Unless they are willing to buy it for me. : D
     
  20. ahurst

    ahurst Member

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    Speed limits here are 70-75. I would value the highway passing speeds as well as max torque heading up to the mountains...85D is what I want
     

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