TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Sydney to Adelaide (without Melbourne)

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by omniwolf, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    Hi all,

    I have my 70D coming in Feb (hopefully!), and my wife has already proposed we try and drive to Adelaide in the thing. Of course i'm keen, but this will be my first big trip, and even if the car comes on time i'll only have had a couple of weeks in it at most, so looking for some pointers and advice.
    We plan on doing the Snowy Valleys Way, and then heading South West to Adelaide.

    I'll break up the trip into the sections I think we'll do.

    1. From Sydney to Gundagai via Bowral (dinner) and Goulburn (top up).
    I don't see any problems with this part. Sleep the night in or around Gundagai.

    home to gundagai.png


    2. Gundagai to Yarrangobilly, then back up to Tumut, the down to Tumbarumba. 225kms
    We'll be stopping along the way, probably have lunch in Tumut, and plan on staying the night at Tumbarumba. I will need to work out how to charge overnight here. Will a 10A charge be enough to fill me up? Or will I need to find an electric shop?

    to tumbarumba.png


    3. Tumbarumba to Wodonga. 192kms
    I don't see a problem with this bit. We'll be stopping along the way again doing walks and whatnot. Wodonga I can supercharge. Stay the night at Wodonga or maybe the destination charging place in Aubury.

    to wodonga.png


    4. Wodonga to Bendigo via Euroa. 163kms, 138kms
    I'll charge up to full at Euroa, then Euroa to Bendigo is 138kms. The plan here is to go to the destination charger at the Bendigo cafe and charge up. It's a 16A wall charger there, any thoughts on how long it will take to fill me up? Ideally we'd have lunch here then leave afterwards with a full charge. This is where things get a bit tricky...

    to bendigo.png


    5. Bendigo to Bordertown. 364kms
    This one will be tight, I assume. The 70D is rated at 442kms, but i suspect you'd be dreaming to expect to get this? Will it make 364kms from Bendigo to Bordertown? Our other option is there's a guy on plugshare at Horsham which is only 215kms, so much more palatable. But, it's a 15A charger, so I couldn't just supercharge up and be on my way, I'd have to spend hours/the night there. I chose Bordertown because of the 15A powered campsite I could make use of, and also it's pretty central between Bendigo and Adelaide.

    to bordertown.png


    6. Bordertown to Adelaide. 271kms
    I assume this bit should be fine? 271kms should give me wiggle room to stop on the way for sight seeing, etc?

    to adelaide.png


    The other option is from Bendigo onwards I ignore plugshare, we work out where we want to stay, and I just make phone calls to electric shops and see if they'll let me charge.

    The idea for the trip isn't just to plow through and get to Adelaide, we want to make stops on the way (which could be beneficial - can possibly charge while we wander around).
    Would love to hear any thoughts on this.

    Thanks!
    Nick.
     
  2. lennier

    lennier Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Your main issue will be overnight charging. 10A and even 15A single phase won't cut it, as you're looking at about 10-15 typical km added per hour, so 20 to 30 hours for a full charge. Destination chargers or 3-phase are really your only option if you want to arrive somewhere at night and leave in the morning. Oh, and step 5 I doubt you'll make in one hop at normal speeds, I'd think.
     
  3. goulash1971

    goulash1971 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    @omniwolf - I can't give much help here (I only received my Model S 5 days ago and it's mainly been used tootling around Melbourne - first big trip will be the safe & standard run to Syndey) but I'm interested in how you go.

    I'm hoping that we might be able to, as a community, could work out a strategy to build a sub-network of destination chargers that give coverage and also help rural businesses & towns with their trade. I have to say that Tesla's attitude towards this is fantastic - whilst they support the big boys (eg. The RACV club - and I applaud the RACV for their attitude, along with others such as Westfield, Secure Parking etc) they are also very supportive of the smaller venues.

    i recently proposed Grand Ridge Brewery in Mirboo North as a potential site for a destination charger (I have no affiliation, but I do like their beer!!) and Telsa offered not only to put in a charger, but also to prioritise them for 3-phase if they have it available.

    The main challenge of course is edumacting the potential charger hosts of benefit - it's not because they are ignorant or don't care, but the value proposition (yes I am a consultant !) is not clearly defined and I think this is where we as a community can help.

    I'm just not entirely sure how yet :)

    Maybe it's about identifying where we WOULD go if only we had a destination charger?
    What we would do ... buy wine, buy beer, buy other stuff that isn't alcohol

    Maybe it's a contributory fund - I worked out that I would save $22k over 4-years by NOT buying petrol and I didn't buy the car for that saving ... so I'm ok about putting $$ Into a pot that could be use for advocacy (the example of Bjorn "mad Thai Norweigian" Nyland and his contribution of Chademo chargers to the community is admirable, as is the work that the Norweigian Tesla Owners club does) ... perhaps it's a model like Acorns.

    Maybe it's a affiliate marketing opportunity - connect a business to people that buy Tesla's and are probably interested in quality products and services

    Maybe it's a .... <insert suggestion here>

    Tesla are doing a great job with the supercharger network, but I for one would like to be able to go and visit some of Australia's iconic tourist attractions such as the Singing Fence at Winton in my Tesla (my girlfriend, who is a Queenslander, does NOT agree).

    Anyway ... @omniwolf ... I am interested to here how you go.
     
  4. mhh

    mhh Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Omniwolf, how about stopping the night in Bendigo if the bakery will let you stay plugged in all night, then overnighting in Penola while your car is charging on the destination charger at Raidis Estate. Then a gentle run to Adelaide.
     
  5. paulp

    paulp Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    I wouldnt be relying too much on rated range.
    Also if you are running low coming into adelaide, and its daytime, you can stop at the 32A destination chargers at burnside village just near the base of the freeway.
    generally, each amp of charging gives you approximately 1kmh of charge, assuming single phase and single on-board charger.
     
  6. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    OK thanks. can my single charger car use 3 phase? I thought it could only do single? I've probably got this wrong somehow


    agreed with your sentiment. will let you know if/when it happens :)

    That's on option, but Bendigo to Penola at best 386kms. So i don't think I could make it..
    Also Penola to Adelaide is 383kms, again probably not viable.

    ok, that's easy to remember, thanks.
     
  7. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,079
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    All cars can 3 phase charge.
     
  8. moemoke

    moemoke Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Moe, Victoria, Australia
    Sounds like a great trip and the fun has already started with just the planning.

    For the Bendigo-Bordertown leg have you thought about going via Horsham and
    picking up a couple of hours charge there! You might arrive at Bordertown pretty late but
    you will get there and it only adds 7 k's to that leg.
     
  9. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    thanks dborn. at some point (probably in the distant future) i'll eventually understand how this charging stuff works.


    yeah that's true. Could sleep the night at Bendigo charging at the cafe, then go to Horsham for a late lunch, charge up a bit there, and head to Bordertown.
     
  10. lennier

    lennier Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Horsham is only 15A though you were saying? So 'charging a bit' won't give you much, you'd need to be there for quite a few hours to add enough range to be worth while. You'd probably get the same range benefit by slowing down a bit on the road (if practical) and still get to the final destination a lot fast. As I say, 10-15A charging is mostly useless on a road trip unless you're stopping somewhere for a day or more, or if you just have to have a few 10s more km to get to your destination.

    It's worth playing around in EVTripPlanner with different scenarios to get a feel for this. It's pretty easy to change the 'speed multiplier' and see the effect on the consumed kWh for a given trip (and corresponding 'rated' kms). From this you can see much additional range you can get by slowing down a bit, and compare to how long you'd have to charge to get the same kWh back for a given charge rate.
     
  11. timpoo

    timpoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2014
    Messages:
    826
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Omni it would be worth carrying some cables that you could use to charge from 3 Phase outlets, meaning 50km of range per hour. It's pretty simple and there are cost effective solutions out there. PM me if you'd like and I can walk you through them.
     
  12. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    Yeah i'm starting to worry about that. Hopefully Bendigo overnight should fill me up, as i'll have just come from a supercharger. But, you make a good point about Horsham.

    I had a look at EVTripPlanner, but it doesn't have an option to say my car is the 70D, which makes it all a bit academic. Maybe slowing down is the answer, though. The other thing i have to contend with is (rightly so) the wife doesn't want it to just be a pure road trip, she wants to stop along the way for site seeing, so i'll need buffer up my sleeve for that.

    Hi Tim, yep i definitely plan on getting some cables from you, if i could charge at 32A at every stop that'd be ideal, but probably not realistic. I think i'm going to have to make some phone calls and find people with 3 phase who don't mind me charging up.
     
  13. BenT

    BenT Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA, Australia
    I know that the 10amp single phase charging is slow (10km/hr) but does it also not give you full range. I charged at home on 10 amp prior to a trip and despite setting the battery to full charge I only got to about 390 km range. We don't have superchargers in Adelaide but would a stronger charger be able to give me longer range on a battery? Can it squeeze more power in?
     
  14. EcoCloudIT

    EcoCloudIT Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Melbourne, VIC
    Using Tesla Wall Connector and a 40AMP circuit (car drawing at 32AMPS) I get a full charge including a range charge....maybe have your electrician run a new 6mm cable so you can support higher amperage?

    -ECIT
     
  15. MDK

    MDK Aussie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Western Down Under
    390km (if you have your display set to typical range) is about right for a 85kWh battery.
    I get around 388km "typical" when fully charged

    Superchargers only help at lower states of charge - the more "charge" a battery has, the slower you have to top it up (and the last 0.5% takes a looooong time, even on a supercharger)
     
  16. lennier

    lennier Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    What battery and range method Ben? I charge off 10A at home all the time and have no problem getting full charge when I need it. There should be no relationship between the rate of charge and the maximum state of charge achievable. The reason I ask about the battery etc is that 390 *rated* km is about right for 100% on a 60kWh and pretty close for full *typical* charge on an 85kWh.
     
  17. paulp

    paulp Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2015
    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    Ben you can always head to burnside village and give it a charge using the destination charger, and see if that makes a difference. It's set at 32 amps, and is in the underground carpark adjacent the travellator entrance. If you try and arrive at 90%, it shouldn't take too long.
     
  18. BenT

    BenT Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA, Australia
    I have an 85 kWh battery. According to the Tesla website I should get a range of up to around 500km with this.
     
  19. MDK

    MDK Aussie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Western Down Under
    And you will, if you drive in a similar fashion as the NEDC which most (all?) Australian cars are tested against.

    And if you change your energy display to "Rated" instead of "Typical" then it will show around 500km on a full charge. You can do this in the Settings menu under Units & Format

    Note that you will need to keep your average energy use to around 160Wh/km to achieve "Rated Range", whereas "Typical range" is based around 200Wh/km


    settings-units.png
     
  20. omniwolf

    omniwolf eNizl

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Neutral Bay, Sydney
    #20 omniwolf, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
    iT's AliVe!!~

    Resurrecting this thread because I have now done this trip :)
    Well, a modified version. We decided not to go to Adelaide, took 2 days off work, and planned to just do the Snowy Valleys Way.
    So step 1-3 in the first post was basically what we did:

    1. From Sydney to Gundagai via Goulburn (top up). We skipped Bowral, had dinner at the Paragon in Goulburn, and slept the night at the Tuckerbox Motor Inn in Gundagai. They let us 10A charge overnight which meant we were at 100% by the morning.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=104404&d=1450164822.png actual-charging-wednesday.png

    2. Gundagai to Yarrangobilly, then back up to Tumut, then down to Paddys River Cottage Retreat. Gundagai to Yarrangobilly I underestimated. It's only about 100 kms but due to hills I ended up with 51% battery on arrival. I was expecting in the 70s. At the ticket office I spoke to the lady and she let me 10A charge while we were there which was nice, but in reality I think I added about 16 kms. Better than nothing, and I'm glad I did with hindsight.. After the caves we made the dangerous decision to stop off at the Tumut power station (part of the snowy hydro scheme, a round trip of 12 kms). I looked hard for powerpoints, but left disappointed.
    actual-tuckerbox to caves to paddys.PNG actual-charging-thursday1.png

    We then drove back up to Tumut for some lunch. This was where I was going to make up for the extra lost charge - I had previously rung around and found an auto shop with 5 pin 3 phase power and they agreed to let me charge. We drove up (at around 35% available battery), and the guy told me to drive around the back where there was a free socket. I did so and it turned out it was a 4 pin socket. Not to worry though, he had a 5 pin one elsewhere in the shop, so I drove back around to the front and onto the car lift thing (scraped my underside too :( ). Plugged it in and... nothing. No green lights on the UMC, no power. The socket was definitely live as he had to unplug something to let me plug in. After screwing around for a few minutes and some frantic messages to Tim, I plugged in to a 10A GPO and cut my losses. I was confident we could get to Paddys River Cottage Retreat (where we were staying that night), but I knew we'd get max 150 km charge overnight, and if we rocked up almost flat we wouldn't be in great stead for the driving we were to do the next day. Between Tim, the mechanic, and me we figured that while the socket had 5 pins, only 4 were actually connected. Bummer! We had a late lunch, and then drove down to Paddys River. At this point it was raining VERY hard, the car kept telling me there was an imminent crash which was annoying, but worse the rain and constant sharp breaking was draining precious power! We arrived with 16% battery. I managed to angle the car so the charge point was undercover, and started charging immediately.

    actual-charging-thursday2.png


    3. Paddys River Cottage Retreat to Wodonga via the Snowy Valleys Way. The next morning we had about 215 kms (~60%) of charge which would be enough to get us to Wodonga, but wouldn't allow much sight seeing. Also I had been driving about 25 km/h under the speed limit everywhere which was getting a bit tiresome. I longed for a launch! We decided we'd make one stop at Tallangatta for lunch and a walk along Lake Hume. While on the way I started googling mechanics in Tallangatta to try my luck for another 3 phase charge. The first one I tried seemed glad he only had 4 pin (I get the feeling if I said I needed 4 pin he would have told me he only had 5 pin), the second one I spoke to a lady at the front desk, she told me she had no idea what 3 phase was, and then told me cars should run on petrol which I politely took as a joke. She called over the owner who was a nice guy, checked a few sockets for me, but only had 4 pin. We chatted for a bit (he recognised the Tesla without prompting), and he suggested I try an earth moving place a hundred metres up the road. We drove up and just caught the owner as he was about to drive away. A no nonsense guy who spat when I mentioned all the other places having 4 pins. "bloody rollers! all wired up for 5 pin here, mate". I'm not sure what that meant, but the UMC lit up, and I was doing my first 3 phase charge! We went and found some lunch, went on a quick walk (it was about a million degrees, so not pleasant walking weather), and I even did my first summon here as I had parked pretty close to those bins (see below). The car was now at a healthy 50% charge; more than enough to get us to Wodonga. I was so pleased I did a launch or two. In the end it was close - going the speed limit (and some) and with my celebratory launches, we got to the Wodonga SC with 15% to spare.

    actual-paddys-wodonga.PNG actual-charging-friday.png

    From here we just followed the SC trail back to Sydney, stopping in Bowral for dinner. It was a long drive, but auto pilot and a power nap in Goulburn helped.

    Things I've learnt:
    • When ringing up a place to see if they will let you 3 phase charge, not only do you have to check if the 5th pin is there, but you have to check if it's connected. All the mechanics I went to had 4 pin, or 5 pin with neutral disconnected. I get the feeling the machinery mechanics use don't need neutral, so unfortunately while easy to find, they're probably not good candidates for 3 phase charging.
    • auto pilot while fun, is really only to be used on main roads with clear painted lines on both sides of the lane.
    • the air con isn't as good as I expected. I think it's power is OK, but the "auto" setting doesn't keep it's promise. I found I was often manually increasing the fan speed.
    • the AP "please hold the wheel" warning was inconsistent. It doesn't only appear when the car isn't sure what's happening. It sometimes leaves you alone for 30 minute stretches, sometimes every 2 or 3 minutes it warns you. It always seems to warn you on a corner though - I don't recall any warnings appearing on straight road.
    • the trip charge estimation thing is very good. I was happily relying on it by the end of the trip.
    • when driving in the country ensure you bring music on your phone or a USB disk. Telstra 3G is good, but not that good.
    • I created calendar entries for each place we were going so I could just load it straight from the calendar into the car navigation. It worked well, I would do it again.
    • I bought a 20m extension cord which I thought was too long, in the end I was glad I had it.
    • Tried to see what was better - windows down and no air con, or windows up and air con. Seemed much of a muchness.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page