Taycan Takedown

[MightyHawk]

Not a fan of the interior. There are loads of soft touch virtual buttons all over the place. I'll take my Model 3 dashboard any day.

I own a Porsche Macan. Or more correctly, will own it until I trade it in for my Model 3 next weekend. Porsche interiors are gorgeous. They cheap out a tiny bit in the switchgear, but everything else is made with high quality materials (assuming you upgrade to the good leather-$$$). Ride quality is outstanding for an SUV, both in terms of comfort and performance with the optional air suspension-$$$).

I expect the Taycan to be equally beautiful and functional with enough money thrown at it.

I thought about waiting for the Taycan. While Macan is a wonderful SUV, but I no longer need an SUV now that my kids drive. I have instead decided to buy the Model 3 as a daily driver, and after my kids leave the house, buy a proper sports car for the weekend.

 

[Nocturnal]

The 800V architecture of the Taycan's HV system probably plays a role in this. At 800V, only half as much current is required to output a given amount of power as in a 400V system, i.e. there is less waste heat that needs to be removed from the HV components and motors.

Good point.

It's also kind of funny that the same people who are ripping into Porsche for how much more it costs than a P100D or P3D view the huge price difference between the Taycan and Roadster 2.0 as trivial.

I don't understand your point there. The Taycan and Roadster aren't anywhere near comparable in terms of performance. A P100D or P3D is arguably comparable to the Taycan.

Top Gear just posted their first review. Porsche Taycan review: our first go in Tesla's big rival

Curb weight over 2.2 tonnes! Thats ~800 lbs more than P3D.

Wow. It must have massive brakes. ​

 

[voip-ninja]

Good point.

I don't understand your point there. The Taycan and Roadster aren't anywhere near comparable in terms of performance. A P100D or P3D is arguably comparable to the Taycan.

​

​

It being a Porsche results in a significant increase in cost even if performance is similar. See my previous comment between "similar" performance between a $40K Subaru WRX and a $80K BMW M3. Similarly a $80,000 Corvette has "similar" performance to a $140,000 911 Turbo but Porsche still manages to sell plenty of those.

And P100D will never be a Taycan competitor due to the very aggressive thermal limiting, lack of a real sport suspension, etc.

P3D vs. Taycan? Probably closer but I imagine the Porsche is still better.

 

[seattlite2004]

Top Gear just posted their first review. Porsche Taycan review: our first go in Tesla's big rival
Curb weight over 2.2 tonnes! Thats ~800 lbs more than P3D.

Arghh... Regen on the brake pedal. Maybe there will be an option for one pedal driving.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Top Gear just posted their first review. Porsche Taycan review: our first go in Tesla's big rival
Curb weight over 2.2 tonnes! Thats ~800 lbs more than P3D.

Oink oink!

Rounding error could make that at "little" as 700 lbs more or as much as 900 lbs more.

 

[JulienW]

Motor1.com is speculating that it will have over 500kW of power in over boost and could do 0-100kph in 2.5 seconds. This could make it as quick off the line as the S Ludicrous and WAY quicker than a 3 Performance. I bet they are close and Porsche is sandbagging this most important spec until the reveal.

2020 Porsche Taycan Has More Than 700 HP, 750 LB-FT With Overboost

 

[Adam3]

I think only the "Turbo S" version has overboost. I bet that config will be ~$150,000. I guess we'll find out on September 4th when they debut it?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So, next week will be the big reveal, apparently. Maybe we should quantify what we would feel would be a "success" for Porsche in this thread.

So, for the highest end Taycan vehicle to be revealed next week (the Turbo S???), this would be my definition of an excellent vehicle:

Specs: Greater than 600HP/650lb-ft (sustained, not including the Boosted mode).
Acceleration: Better than 2.6 seconds, excluding rollout. (Presumably that would be in Boosted mode - without boost it would only be 2.9s)
Speed: Fastest production EV, stock configuration, at Laguna Seca
Endurance: Repeatable hot laps at Laguna Seca, more than 8 laps? Not sure this bar is high enough...how many would be "excellent?"
Weight: Less than 4850 pounds. (Looks like it won't do it in the high end trim...)
Range: > 240 miles, EPA
Price: < $160k
Safety: 5-star safety rating overall, NHTSA (Doesn't look like Porsche has to do these tests...so we won't get this...???)
Delivery: Before April 2020.

Probably I'm missing some parameters. But the above would be a success for Porsche as far as I can tell.

 

[afadeev]

[...]Probably I'm missing some parameters. But the above would be a success for Porsche as far as I can tell.

I think the only "success" factor that matters is ... SALES!
Everything else is irrelevant.

Whatever you, or I, may think about Taycan's price, range, acceleration #s, or looks, is all subjective.
Reservation #s and sales #s are objective. The former look very interesting: 30+K since announcement.
If Porsche can build and deliver that many the next year, Taycan will become the best selling Porsche. And that will be one hell of a success story for Porsche, and big feather in the cap of EV adoption.

Even if you don't like Taycan's specs, it will still be a success story for Porsche.
The fact that it's a Porsche, that is backed by Porsche's customer service network, and a 4-door sedan with kick-ass Nurburgring time (7min 42sec), should be enough to attract of a lot of performance enthusiasts to the dealers!

a

P.S.: The name of this thread is way too passive-aggressive

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think the only "success" factor that matters is ... SALES!
Everything else is irrelevant.

Sure. There just has been a lot of talk here (possibly tongue in cheek?) about how it's not going to be good enough (for "reasons") and I was hoping to quantify. In the end what will drive sales is a product that actually is excellent. If it's not fast enough they might have problems with sales, for example. But, I suspect Porsche will do just fine.

As has been said several times, it's a bit silly to compare Model 3 to a car that costs 2-3x as much. And to the extent the Taycan is faster, it is just going to raise the bar for Tesla, which is great.

 

[dfwatt]

This is an impressive number, but note that they're "cheating" to a degree. The "at its most efficient" gives it away: One of the inherent disadvantages of ICEs is that they generate in the vicinity of 75% waste heat. That heat needs to be moved away from the engine compartment somehow. Usually this means moving a good amount of air through the grille and radiator. This actually introduces quite a significant amount of drag (sometimes called "cooling drag").

BMW's most efficient Cd is accomplished by closing off its grille when cooling is not needed. This means that the 0.22 Cd is only achievable in those circumstances when minimal cooling is needed. I'm curious at what speeds/ambient temperatures this configuration is actually sustainable.

Everybody's in a sense always trying to game the system. The notion that you can release a CD that reflects a situation that is not happening except in a modest small percentage of operating time is regrettable. My understanding is that the radiator actually adds .025 to the drag coefficient, suggesting that most of the time the BMW is not really that close to the model 3s drag coefficient.

 

[seattlite2004]

Looks like drifting the thing is possible...that is if you like that stuff

 

[FlatSix911]

Survey: Tesla Model S preferred to Porsche Taycan — but why compare just them? - Electrek

Porsche is launching the Taycan tomorrow, which has led to a lot of excitement and anticipation among EV fans. Finally, another performance-oriented EV is hitting the market. This excitement has translated to 30,000 preorders for Porsche even before Taycan’s “official” reveal (which Fred Lambert will be covering tomorrow).

But according to a survey out today from Autolist, average consumers are still more excited about the veteran in the market: the Tesla Model S. Autolist surveyed 1,500 current car shoppers, and 45% preferred the Tesla Model S to the Porsche Taycan, with 33% picking the Porsche and 22% saying they weren’t sure.

 

[TeeEmCee]

I think the only "success" factor that matters is ... SALES!
Everything else is irrelevant.

To be very accurate, profits are the only thing that ultimately matters, not sales.

 

[GregRF]

I'm aware of the tech behind it.

And my response was meant for a fanboy who thinks 0.23 cd is something unheard of. Mercedes reached it on a mass production ICE car in 2012 already. If BMW with closed grills reaches 0.22 on an ICE then most likely it can deliver same or better results on an EV. And Porsche isn't behind either.

Meh. These are the same manufacturers that would tape seems for their consumption tests. The 2013 CLA was supposed to be .23 cd, but when independently tested at U.S spec it actually tested at .30 cd.

I take most of these numbers with a huge grain of salt until we see independent testing. At least Tesla's number matched the testing.

 

[acoste]

Meh. These are the same manufacturers that would tape seems for their consumption tests. The 2013 CLA was supposed to be .23 cd, but when independently tested at U.S spec it actually tested at .30 cd.

I take most of these numbers with a huge grain of salt until we see independent testing. At least Tesla's number matched the testing.

Did you read what you linked?

"But it’s worth noting that Mercedes does not fit special features such as automatic grille shutters to U.S. models."

 

[GregRF]

Did you read what you linked?

"But it’s worth noting that Mercedes does not fit special features such as automatic grille shutters to U.S. models."

Yes. As I wrote "US spec". And I highly doubt the shutter version actually improves drag 36%. (and that's when the shutters are closed)

Didn't stop them from advertising the .23 number while never delivering it to the US.

 

[acoste]

Yes. As I wrote "US spec". And I highly doubt the shutter version actually improves drag 36%. (and that's when the shutters are closed)

Didn't stop them from advertising the .23 number while never delivering it to the US.

You misleadingly said the 0.3 should be 0.23. People don't know what's US spec and what's not.

Also from the document:
"As a result, drag and lift measurements on a particular vehicle can vary from one tunnel to another."

back to this sentence
"But it’s worth noting that Mercedes does not fit special features such as automatic grille shutters to U.S. models."

translated for you: they know this car doesn't have automatic grille and there might be other deviations from the Euro model. Those usually have small engines which affects the design of airflow and exhaust. Might be different wheel and tire as well.
The best model was the CLA 180 BlueEfficiency edition, which is the smallest engine.


Here is your story debunked:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...edly-bested-by-tesla-model-s-video-82362.html

"a European-spec Mercedes-Benz CLA 250 sports a Cd of 0.28, " - with the active grilles

 

[Adam3]

Sorry if this is a repost. Taycan event will be livestreamed tomorrow morning, 6AM Pacific.

Live broadcasting of the world premiere of the brand new Porsche Taycan - soul electrified.

 

[hydro 481]

Looks pretty much like the recent mules we've been seeing. I think it looks like a sleeker version of the Panamera. Definitely not anywhere close to the Mission E concept but still a very nice looking car IMO. We didn't learn anything we didn't know before during the presentation but one interesting point I noticed was the mention of software updates. This was the one unique feature of the Tesla cars. If Porsche can implement this as well it will be a big deal. Price wise though the car is too expensive, especially with the top of the line Turbo S being close to 200K. That's Tesla Roadster territory.