Tesla Alternative?

[Kvitravn]

You lost my Thumbs up on this one . This clearly highlight the problem the legacy car makers are saddled with and going down the same route as Nokia!

Is it not an interesting topic though? Clearly the legacy makers are completely aware of Nokia and neck deep in the innovators dilemma. Some interesting business decisions playing out these days for sure. For instance the bold move Ford is making to split their company into "old" and "new", if it pays off, is going to look great in hidsight. Gm.... not so much IMHO.

Personally have been very impressed with KIA and Hyundai's rapid tech advances compared to other legacy makers. It's not a very good sign that VW is buying tech and even an entire vehicle platform from Hyundai.

 

[Jason71]

On a curious sidenote, I have a colleague who has a still functioning Nokia 6650. It's a strangely beautiful piece of technology - completely outdated but the tactile feel is still appealing.

So perhaps there will still be a market for more manual options in the future; you know, with steering wheel stalks and perhaps even manual drive option
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You know Nokia went out of business right? or at least stopped making phones so not a great example of how to do things in the face of market disruption

 

[SO16]

My issue with Tesla, is that (ironically) they have got the difficult things right ie the SuC network, great performance, and very competitive miles/kwh efficiency. Competitors are struggling to match this, and it will take massive investment to beat Tesla in these areas. Oddly, Tesla don’t need to improve other things too much to make all-round great cars ie interior quality, better ergonomics, and a few more colours/trims to mean that yours not driving the same car as your neighbour.

What do they do? They strip back features like parking sensors, and then go even further by removing indicator and gear stalks.

I’d love them to make a car that combines the Tesla drivetrain with German/Japanese build quality/ergonomics, but they seem intent on a race to the bottom in these areas. They’re leaving an open goal for someone (a Chinese firm) to make a more ICE-like EV.

There will be 3rd party stalk options for those who want them.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697992308048658530

 

[Zilla91]

Tesla sells every single car they can make

They really don't and the ones they are selling, they're having to drop prices to stimulate sales.

 

[Kvitravn]

Interesting model coming up - the Audi A6 Avant e-tron. Audi previewed the design at Goodwood 2022 and I was positively surprised by the overall look of it - clean aggressive shape with little clutter. Will be interesting to see in the flesh.

Will be interesting to see if Audi is going the same high cost direction as BMW and particularly Mercedes.

 

[spdpsba]

They really don't and the ones they are selling, they're having to drop prices to stimulate sales.

It is part of their disruptive business model - flush the market with their cars, create surplus and price goes down for all EVs and get the legacy makers to chase their shadows!

 

[Kvitravn]

They really don't and the ones they are selling, they're having to drop prices to stimulate sales.

Ok. So what in was the total inventory at the end of Q3?

Tesla isn't production limited - of course they drop prices to boost volumes.

 

[Kvitravn]

You know Nokia went out of business right? or at least stopped making phones so not a great example of how to do things in the face of market disruption

What? Really?

Nokia is the posterboy for legacy tech crash & burn. It is 100% given that the legacy CEOs know their fate in much more detail than we do - still, it seems like many people are still expecting the legacy makers will catch up with Tesla.

It's almost like having the greatest R&D spend in the business and a hardcore business culture has advantages over legacy systems and huge marketing spending

 

[WannabeOwner]

The non-Tesla supercharger alternatives have finally begun to arrive in scale

Anyone know how many sites the competitors have with 12 or more stalls? (I have no idea but am assuming its close to zero until someone corrects me )

Tesla (by my counting of Supercharger Info) has 55 x 12+Stall sites in UK

Nokia 6650. It's a strangely beautiful piece of technology - completely outdated but the tactile feel is still appealing.

... and the battery would last for weeks!

the bold move Ford is making to split their company into "old" and "new"

IBM did similar with PC. As I recollect it the PC division was run like a start-up and reported direct to CEO with all other divisions excluded from meddling

Kodak (paraphrased from Wikipedia) was first with digital camera (1975) and internal report predicted (in 1979) the death of "ICE" Film by 2010 ... Execs did business as usual and some diversification elsewhere, which mostly resulted in losses. Mid '90s the new CEO reversed that, and got rid of the diversifications. 2001 film sales started to fall. 2005 Kodak #1 for digital camera sales, but (back then, in that sphere) competition was strong, and profits were slim. By 2010 Kodak market share was 7%, and smart phones started to replace camera ... outsourced the digital camera stuff, invested in Inkjet printing ... 2009 finances were in terrible state, huge loans, bankruptcy followed a couple of years later. Sold off their "family silver" patents to pay their way out of debt, and emerged to make a profit in 2016. Now? They do well out of making film for motion picture industry

 

[Sean.]

Anyone know how many sites the competitors have with 12 or more stalls? (I have no idea but am assuming its close to zero until someone corrects me )

Here's a stater for ten (or more correctly 5 or more per site ):

UK Charging Hubs with 5 or More CCS Rapid Chargers

Then those in planning...

Not Yet Open EV Charging Hubs - Google My Maps

[courtesy of a bloke from SpeakEV]

 

[pdk42]

Interesting model coming up - the Audi A6 Avant e-tron. Audi previewed the design at Goodwood 2022 and I was positively surprised by the overall look of it - clean aggressive shape with little clutter. Will be interesting to see in the flesh.

Will be interesting to see if Audi is going the same high cost direction as BMW and particularly Mercedes.

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Ohh, I like that - but if the price of the new BMW i5 is anything to go by, I’ll need to sell the house to afford it.

 

[yessuz]

I can't see it catching on that much in the UK where even in a crowed city like London everyone apparently needs to drive an SUV but have you ever been to Rome? Every other car is a smart car or a Fiat 500, I can see their could be a market for this if cheap enough.

Or get electric fist 500

 

[spdpsba]

get electric fist 500

You mean this

 

[Jason71]

Or get electric fist 500

Assuming you meant Fiat 500. Already got one.

 

[The_Cable_Guy]

i have my eye on the a6 e-tron for a while. but there is not a chance it will be near the 60k base they recon, i would imagine this will be near 80-90k.

 

[ACarneiro]

When I win Euromillions (aaaaaaany day now) it'll either be a Lucid Air or an Audi e-Tron GT.
Or one of each

 

[pdk42]

i have my eye on the a6 e-tron for a while. but there is not a chance it will be near the 60k base they recon, i would imagine this will be near 80-90k.

Yeah, I agree. The base BMW i5 is £75k. I can’t imagine the A6 e-tron being cheaper. With even some modest options it’ll be over £80k.

 

[Kvitravn]

Yes, the i5 M40 isn't exactly high performance or a lit of useful rabge. And even a moderately specced i5 M60 is pretty much Plaid price level.

I think Audi is aiming for similar price levels too. All three Germans are battery constrained so I guess maximum price is their most viable strategy.

 

[yessuz]

Assuming you meant Fiat 500. Already got one.

yeah.. have those small buttons on the touch screens... god, I miss my BlackBerry keyboard...

 

[yessuz]

You mean this

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