Tesla Alternative?

[WannabeOwner]

Here's a stater for ten (or more correctly 5 or more per site ):

I got excited by seeing the one near the top of the list

<350KW> [19] Applegreen Gretna / Gridserve / Ionity Services North​

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Whilst there are 12 Applegreen stalls, which is impressive, the headline is a bit misleading.

Ionity have 350kW CCS ... but only 4 stalls, the 12x Applegreen ones are 180kW and the remaining Greidserver (I presume legacy Ecotricity) are 50kW and 1x chademo

I made a rough count of 34 sites that have 12+ stalls (some are amongst a mix of operators, and I didn't check if some of those are 50kW)

Not the zero-ish that I expected, thanks.

 

[WannabeOwner]

When I win Euromillions (aaaaaaany day now)

have you started buying a ticket then?

 

[Sean.]

Ionity have 350kW CCS ... but only 4 stalls, the 12x Applegreen ones are 180kW and the remaining Greidserver (I presume legacy Ecotricity) are 50kW and 1x chademo

Ionity announced a 380 charger deal with Village Hotels last month across their 33 sites. So if Ionity build as they say by some time in 2024 they will have an estate of 65 sites give or take.

Then there’s other networks like MFG that have been growing in the last year like the absolute clappers. Lots of 150 kW Alpitronic HYC units which are very well regarded.

Ditto Osprey and countless other networks. There really is a huge growth in HPC networks as well as Tesla themselves in the last 12-18 months. It has to be seen to be believed.

 

[WannabeOwner]

There really is a huge growth in HPC networks

Interesting for me was that they were not the names I was familiar with. Ionity still seem to have very few stalls at each site, so more likelihood of queuing. I reckon the others, with lots of stalls, are onto a better thing. But I dunno if 150kW is going to look paltry before very long.

 

[Niffty951]

So I've skipped to the end instead of reading like a good new forum member.. but having come from a BMW EV to a Tesla, if you need to use the national network more than very infrequently and don't just charge at home. Any other EV is a significant downgrade due to the charging network and cost.

Even without the ease of use argument/considering how many are badly maintained and out of service. The non Tesla fast chargers are at least twice the price and far harder to find than Tesla chargers. When you do find them they are frequently over subscribed with cars queuing. The majority of chargers are badly regulated and so often fall short of their quoted charging rates. I stopped in an empty service station at a 50kW charger in my Tesla. I tried two different chargers and both wouldn't get above 29kW charging rate. It turns a 10min stop into 1hr.

For my use case, driving 600+miles 3-4 times a month and charging at home the rest of the month. Which Tesla model remains my only choice simply due to the charging network.

(Also I happen to quite like the stealth of driving a M3P, which looks like every other Tesla, but goes like people wouldn't believe)

 

[WannabeOwner]

Even without the ease of use argument/considering how many are badly maintained and out of service. The non Tesla fast chargers are at least twice the price and far harder to find than Tesla chargers. When you do find them they are frequently over subscribed with cars queuing. The majority of chargers are badly regulated and so often fall short of their quoted charging rates.

Am I right in thinking that non-Teslas don't have plug-and-go charging? So have to fiddle with APP to start the charge? (Pretty sure there are moves afoot to improve that, but not sure if it is actually readily available ... much? ... yet

That must add several minutes to the charging time, particularly if there are any snags with getting the APP to work and so on. Maybe that too has improved since I last did battle with it ...

 

[Niffty951]

Am I right in thinking that non-Teslas don't have plug-and-go charging? So have to fiddle with APP to start the charge? (Pretty sure there are moves afoot to improve that, but not sure if it is actually readily available ... much? ... yet

That must add several minutes to the charging time, particularly if there are any snags with getting the APP to work and so on. Maybe that too has improved since I last did battle with it ...

Authentication with an app and then the car pairing with the charger definitely adds a couple of minutes of faff before charging that isn't present with Tesla. A lot of the newer chargers allow tap and pay without app sign-up just NFC with your bank card/phone/watch. That has improved things, I wouldn't say it was really an issue much anymore.. but in fairness to Tesla they are still the slickest of the bunch in that area too. Just plug and 5-10s later the car is charging. You don't have to do anything.

 

[Roy Batty]

Am I right in thinking that non-Teslas don't have plug-and-go charging? So have to fiddle with APP to start the charge? (Pretty sure there are moves afoot to improve that, but not sure if it is actually readily available ... much? ... yet

That must add several minutes to the charging time, particularly if there are any snags with getting the APP to work and so on. Maybe that too has improved since I last did battle with it ...

Some already do I think, VW and Porsche with Ionity and Electrify America, I think, see it in some of the Out of Spec YouTube videos.

Ita one of those things that will become more common over the next few years.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I read somewhere - Forbes I think - the idea that non-Tesla operators should start charging the car immediately, and if no authentication within a minute or two then stop. The amount of juice they would waste from "did not then authenticate" would be tiny, customer satisfaction would be up , and anyone who was low on juice, with no intention of fraud, but crappy-APPy failed to work would at least have a little bit to get them to an alternative location.

Dunno if they would get any Car Info in that time, but if they did then easy enough to blacklist repeat offenders ...

Seems like far too good an idea for profit-greedy outfits to consider.

 

[Jason71]

I read somewhere - Forbes I think - the idea that non-Tesla operators should start charging the car immediately, and if no authentication within a minute or two then stop. The amount of juice they would waste from "did not then authenticate" would be tiny, customer satisfaction would be up , and anyone who was low on juice, with no intention of fraud, but crappy-APPy failed to work would at least have a little bit to get them to an alternative location.

Dunno if they would get any Car Info in that time, but if they did then easy enough to blacklist repeat offenders ...

Seems like far too good an idea for profit-greedy outfits to consider.

I have heard that if your bank/credit card on your Tesla account has expired/ is invalid they will still give you at least one charge if not more on credit so to speak. (citation needed). If so they obviously decided early on that any costs associated with doing that was better than the optics of people stranded at chargers. It also reduces the need for phone based customer service if you can just add a new card online later which would save them money.

 

[Roy Batty]

I have heard that if your bank/credit card on your Tesla account has expired/ is invalid they will still give you at least one charge if not more on credit so to speak. (citation needed). If so they obviously decided early on that any costs associated with doing that was better than the optics of people stranded at chargers. It also reduces the need for phone based customer service if you can just add a new card online later which would save them money.

When I got my M3 my first charge worked despite me having no card setup in the charging section of the App, didn't realise they needed it in more than one place as I had already subscribed to premium connectivity.

Got the charge, about £15, and it pestered me after and said Supercharging had been disabled, set up my card and paid up. Not actually tested it since to make sure it works.

 

[init6]

I have heard that if your bank/credit card on your Tesla account has expired/ is invalid they will still give you at least one charge if not more on credit so to speak. (citation needed). If so they obviously decided early on that any costs associated with doing that was better than the optics of people stranded at chargers. It also reduces the need for phone based customer service if you can just add a new card online later which would save them money.

Yes they will certainly let you charge once and then flag up that your account doesn't have a payment method. You will be blocked from using superchargers until you pay the outstanding balance:

 

[rincewind]

I sort of agree. But my big gripes with the Model 3 are the crashy ride and the road noise. There are so many EVs now that are way, way better in these things. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like Highland has made more than minor improvements in either so I’m just hoping the public charging infrastructure improves enough for me to go with another brand next time.

Ride and noise are also my top 2 dislikes, which, I think, is sending me down this road soon:

 

[Zilla91]

The UI on that looks so poor

 

[AMP_it_up]

I sort of agree. But my big gripes with the Model 3 are the crashy ride and the road noise. There are so many EVs now that are way, way better in these things. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem like Highland has made more than minor improvements in either so I’m just hoping the public charging infrastructure improves enough for me to go with another brand next time.

Crashy ride can be fixed by having MPP coilovers and springs fitted. They even do a fully adjustable kit to cater for all tastes. The kit improves both the ride and body control. the crash ride is mainly due to the car hitting the bump stops which the MPP kit eliminates.

 

[pdk42]

Crashy ride can be fixed by having MPP coilovers and springs fitted. They even do a fully adjustable kit to cater for all tastes. The kit improves both the ride and body control. the crash ride is mainly due to the car hitting the bump stops which the MPP kit eliminates.

Yeah - I'm looking into suspension upgrades at the moment. Do you have MPP yourself, or direct experience of their kits? There are couple of air suspension retrofits too which I'm going to check out.

 

[ACarneiro]

Doesn’t that make insurance even more prohibitively expensive, though?

 

[pdk42]

Doesn’t that make insurance even more prohibitively expensive, though?

Yeah, the insurance companies never miss an opportunity to extract some coin. Crazy really since better suspension surely improves safety.

 

[Adopado]

Yeah, the insurance companies never miss an opportunity to extract some coin. Crazy really since better suspension surely improves safety.

It improves safety "all other things being equal". Unfortunately all other things aren't equal. Out of the people who choose to upgrade car suspension a significant proportion will be doing it because they are interested in improving sporting performance capability ... they will then push towards their new limits and, in some cases, acquire more points on their license and have more "incidents". Insurance companies use blunt tools ... if, on average, modified cars cost them more in claims then anyone with a modification is going to be charged more.

 

[Cloggie]

Sat in a Kia EV6 today and my hair touched the headliner near the door. I'm about 1.8m and don't have bouffant hair. Really surprised how l little headroom there is upfront.
Trying to not be lazy and go M3 to MY without looking at alternatives, so far not impressed