Tesla Alternative?

[Artiste]

BMW have completely lost the plot here. You couldn’t pay me enough money to own one of these if the production version is anything like this

How they could make something as handsome as the current gen X3 into this incoherent mess is truly spectacular.

I agree that it’s a hideous thing. If it ticked all my boxes, though, I wouldn’t let its looks put me off. After all, I bought an M3 and I consider it to be by far the ugliest car I’ve ever owned.

I had my heart on getting an A8 e-tron in the next 12 months but it seems it’s delayed until 2027. Looks like I’ll have to settle for an A6 e-tron instead.

 

[trueblue_ips]

Looking at smart #1 brabus as a possible next car in stealthy matt grey. Beautiful looking car with the red accents, great interior including drivers display and hud (not a fan of the gimmicky fox thing though).
Decent interior space for a small suv. Fantastic performance, good ride quality and very well priced.
Range nowhere near what a m3 can get but that is not important to me. I only do about 2.5k miles a year, wfh, 90% of journeys under 10 miles and I can charge from home.

 

[Pagemakers]

Anybody got experience of Kia EV6?

 

[ACarneiro]

Anybody got experience of Kia EV6?

My ex has one.
Nice car. Spacious inside, seems solid and well built. Some issues with software, though, but definitely one I'd shortlist...

 

[Pagemakers]

My ex has one.
Nice car. Spacious inside, seems solid and well built. Some issues with software, though, but definitely one I'd shortlist...

What’s the charging situation like? How does autopilot compare? Real world range comparison (3P).

 

[ACarneiro]

What’s the charging situation like? How does autopilot compare? Real world range comparison (3P).

I can ask him and report back

 

[FastLaneJB]

Ha - thanks! Had a V60 diesel from new before my model 3. Not too many issues over 6 years/180k miles

The problem is you are judging a Swedish product against a Chinese car from Geely. They aren't the same company anymore and software is really important now when it wasn't before. I've learnt this lesson getting my Lotus, not many car makers are very good at software at the moment.

 

[MadManMark]

The problem is you are judging a Swedish product against a Chinese car from Geely. They aren't the same company anymore and software is really important now when it wasn't before. I've learnt this lesson getting my Lotus, not many car makers are very good at software at the moment.

Thanks - appreciate that.

I like the Swedish design and the android operating system doesn’t seem a million miles behind Tesla’s offering. It also has CarPlay wireless built in as standard. Only time will tell…

 

[rincewind]

The problem is you are judging a Swedish product against a Chinese car from Geely. They aren't the same company anymore and software is really important now when it wasn't before. I've learnt this lesson getting my Lotus, not many car makers are very good at software at the moment.

Software - so true. I recently drove a BYD Seal. Really nice car, let down by software implentation, especially lane keep assist and the car's propensity to overwhelm the driver with various bings and bongs.

 

[MkPotato]

The problem is you are judging a Swedish product against a Chinese car from Geely. They aren't the same company anymore and software is really important now when it wasn't before. I've learnt this lesson getting my Lotus, not many car makers are very good at software at the moment.

The Polestar 2 is “a Chinese car from Geely”. The Android Automotive OS is better than Tesla in many ways, worse in others. On balance, there’s not much in it, but CarPlay swings it for me in favour of the Polestar (not bothered about fart noises or other gimmicks). We’ve had errors/bugs with both. I trust that the P4 will be pretty solid in terms of software.

 

[FastLaneJB]

The Polestar 2 is “a Chinese car from Geely”. The Android Automotive OS is better than Tesla in many ways, worse in others. On balance, there’s not much in it, but CarPlay swings it for me in favour of the Polestar (not bothered about fart noises or other gimmicks). We’ve had errors/bugs with both. I trust that the P4 will be pretty solid in terms of software.

I’d not be so sure.

You are just thinking of the infotainment side of it here. My Eletre also runs an Android Automotive OS with an Unreal Engine skin over the top. It looks very nice, it’s smooth and pretty well designed interface. It also doesn’t run any of the cars core software.

So things which are specific to that car and the hardware in it, they also need software and that doesn’t come off the shelf. That’s where most of the software issues with my Eletre come from.

Think like a Windows computer, you’ve got Windows as the OS but the drivers that interface with the hardware aren’t written by Microsoft but the hardware vendors. Those drivers in this analogy aren’t all that great.

 

[Pagemakers]

Mate just moved from a P2 to a Y and never looked back.

 

[WllXM]

Mate just moved from a P2 to a Y and never looked back.

The P2 has always looks like an ugly, angular little s*box to me.
However I must confess the P3, and now the P4 are much more appealing and sexy.

But looking again, the P4 I find a lot of similarities with the BYD Seal, or possibly, with many Chinese EVs brands that are now flooding the market.

The new competition will undoubtedly prove difficult, first to get a decent dealer/servicing network in Europe, but most of all, to have acceptable software that has not been half-baked and hasty shipped. Just like the Ocean collapse has shown us...

 

[Jason71]

Anybody got experience of Kia EV6?

I hear there is an imminent recall for total loss of power while driving. Not sure if this is still a problem on new cars or if they have fixed it.

NHTSA Opens Investigation Into 2022 Kia EV6 Over Power Loss

The potential safety defect, for which NHTSA received 11 complaints from owners, could affect nearly 20,000 EV6 electric crossovers sold in the United States.

insideevs.com

 

[Stuart1714]

What’s the charging situation like? How does autopilot compare? Real world range comparison (3P).

I know somebody whose family has an EV6. Excellent fast charging as long as you can find a 350KwH charger rated at 800v. They have some kind of manufacturer card and get a discount with Ionity, so tend to stick to them where they can when travelling and use OVO Anytime at home as their charger is compatible with it.

400v charging such as at a Tesla Supercharger, would leave you disappointed as you won’t get the advertised rates due to the conversion between 400v and 800v. I think one supplier now has an optional extra to improve the conversion. When Tesla opened up some of their chargers to other brands, some of the 800v cars like the EV6, didn’t work with the V3 SuperChargers. I don’t know if this has been resolved yet.

 

[Jason71]

I know somebody whose family has an EV6. Excellent fast charging as long as you can find a 350KwH charger rated at 800v. They have some kind of manufacturer card and get a discount with Ionity, so tend to stick to them where they can when travelling and use OVO Anytime at home as their charger is compatible with it.

400v charging such as at a Tesla Supercharger, would leave you disappointed as you won’t get the advertised rates due to the conversion between 400v and 800v. I think one supplier now has an optional extra to improve the conversion. When Tesla opened up some of their chargers to other brands, some of the 800v cars like the EV6, didn’t work with the V3 SuperChargers. I don’t know if this has been resolved yet.

The problem with Ionity is that there are barely any about 25.
The way things are going Tesla will soon have double that number of sites open to ALL EVs in the UK than Ionity have total UK sites.

 

[ACarneiro]

The problem with Ionity is that there are barely any about 25.
The way things are going Tesla will soon have double that number of sites open to ALL EVs in the UK than Ionity have total UK sites.

They also make Instavolt look like a bargain. Honestly, their rates are usurious!

 

[WllXM]

The problem with Ionity is that there are barely any about 25.
The way things are going Tesla will soon have double that number of sites open to ALL EVs in the UK than Ionity have total UK sites.

Agreed not in the UK. However they are everywhere on motorways in Europe, you’ll find rhem in almost every large Service area.

 

[MadManMark]

Agreed not in the UK. However they are everywhere on motorways in Europe, you’ll find rhem in almost every large Service area.

Do you know what the per kWh prices are in Europe?

The cost of non-tesla fast charging is a joke to be honest. Day ahead electricity pricing is now well below 20ppkwh on uk domestic trackers. I know there is another 15% vat in public charging, but 79ppkw (or more in some case)?!?! It’s outrageous really and must be having an impact on EV take up. The Tesla pricing for non-Tesla’s seems about right - location notwithstanding, why would a non-Tesla driver use anything else?

 

[WllXM]

Do you know what the per kWh prices are in Europe?

The cost of non-tesla fast charging is a joke to be honest. Day ahead electricity pricing is now well below 20ppkwh on uk domestic trackers. I know there is another 15% vat in public charging, but 79ppkw (or more in some case)?!?! It’s outrageous really and must be having an impact on EV take up. The Tesla pricing for non-Tesla’s seems about right - location notwithstanding, why would a non-Tesla driver use anything else?

Actually it’s 44cents € with Kia Charge membership.
Agreed, more expensive than Tesla but not the 79p outrageous fee.

And many manufacturers part of the Ionity alliance offer similar or better deals, i saw BMW offers 1 year of unlimited free charge on Ionity with a new iX3 in Europe for instance.