Tesla Announces CCS1 Adapter Coming to S. Korea Early 2021

[SageBrush]

The car will negotiate with the charger as to how much it can accept.

That is the better part of 750 Amps at peak Amps. Not good for the adapter

A better question is whether the stations called "150 kW" can be used safely. I think so for the most part, since they are typically 150 kW based on 500v and 300 Amps. Typically

 

[kayak1]

That is the better part of 750 Amps at peak Amps. Not good for the adapter

A better question is whether the stations called "150 kW" can be used safely. I think so for the most part, since they are typically 150 kW based on 500v and 300 Amps. Typically

The car will tell the station what it can accept, thus if it can only take 100 KW it will tell the station to only provide 100 KW.
If the battery is cold and not ready for the 100 amp it will tell it to provide less thus you may only see 50 KW. As the battery pack warms up it will let the station know that it can take more. As the battery is getting full it will let the station know that it needs less, thus the taper.

This happens with other CCS cars, this won't be something special for Tesla.

If the car couldn't negotiate with the charger cars like this couldn't charge:

Mazda MX-30 DC Charging Test: Peak Rate Is Not Even 40 kW

Fastned recently had the opportunity to test fast charging performances of the all-new Mazda MX-30, which was supposed to recharge from 0-80% in 40 minutes.

insideevs.com

 

[lynyrdM]

That is the better part of 750 Amps at peak Amps. Not good for the adapter

A better question is whether the stations called "150 kW" can be used safely. I think so for the most part, since they are typically 150 kW based on 500v and 300 Amps. Typically

If the adapter is passive then the car will have to be able to speak CCS to any charger you plug into and part of the handshake process is setting the amperage.

It would be pretty easy to add a current limit into the code of the car for charging on CCS. Tesla could protect the adapter from overcurrent that way.

 

[MP3Mike]

That is the better part of 750 Amps at peak Amps. Not good for the adapter

I'm not aware of any CCS charger that can supply 750 amps. I think they all top out at 350A. (And 1000v to get the 350kW, which very few cars have voltage anywhere near that.)

 

[SageBrush]

It would be pretty easy to add a current limit into the code of the car for charging on CCS. Tesla could protect the adapter from overcurrent that way.

Since Tesla has not done it, I presume it is not 'easy' but I like your idea. Not so much identifying CCS, as knowing when it is not a Supercharger.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm not aware of any CCS charger that can supply 750 amps. I think they all top out at 350A. (And 1000v to get the 350kW, which very few cars have voltage anywhere near that.)

Yeah ... as I said, I think "150 kW" chargers are safe. "350 kW" chargers would not be safe since the car would pull 350 Amps.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yeah ... as I said, I think "150 kW" chargers are safe. "350 kW" chargers would not be safe since the car would pull 350 Amps.

Well actually you said 750 amps...

You still don't get it. The car tells the charger how many volts/amps to supply. It will never ask for more than it can handle. And with the Tesla adapter it will know it is talking to a CCS charger and not a Supercharger. (So it would know an adapter is in use so it can apply appropriate limits.)

 

[SageBrush]

Well actually you said 750 amps...

Correct. And it is the peak amperage for recent Tesla cars, meaning all those cars that see close to 250 kW peak charging.
Grok the arithmetic: 250,000 watts / 340 volts = 735 Amps

You still don't get it.

I disagree. Tesla has made it quite clear an owner can damage electronics if the car is connected to a charger able to supply over 300 Amps. Neither the car or the adapter is preventing over 300 Amps when charging with the CCS1 adapter. If you had read the Tesla support page, you would know (my Bolding):

The CCS Combo 1 adapter has received domestic safety certification (KC) and can be used only with chargers that support the CCS Combo 1 charging standard among public quick chargers. If you use the CCS Combo 1 adapter, you can charge up to 300A, but the charging speed may vary depending on the capacity of the charger, charging conditions, and vehicle condition.

Therefore, the CCS Combo 1 adapter can only be used in public fast chargers with a rated output of 300A or less, which are currently distributed in Korea. Please be aware that it is currently not available for public quick chargers exceeding 300A due to parts that require additional progress, such as testing for use of the fast charger and consultation with the charger operator.

Tesla is not responsible for any problems resulting from the use of public rapid chargers exceeding 300A.

This is why we don't get the nice toys. Merkins are STOOOPID, and then blame Tesla when they ignore or don't read or understand the instructions and warnings.

 

[Limited]

I'm not aware of any CCS charger that can supply 750 amps. I think they all top out at 350A. (And 1000v to get the 350kW, which very few cars have voltage anywhere near that.)

Was looking at the label on the EA 150kw stations and it seems like 350amp might still be a problem given a 300amp max with the adapter.

 

[SageBrush]

Was looking at the label on the EA 150kw stations and it seems like 350amp might still be a problem given a 300amp max with the adapter.

Yeah, I think that is an example of what to avoid. I'm not sure why it is labeled as a "150 kW" Charger. As these things usually go, the max kW rating is calculated as max-current * max voltage, so 0.35*950 = 332 kW

 

[e of pi]

I'm pretty sure under the CCS spec, the car is responsible for requesting amps and volts. Certainly my car will only request what it can handle whether I plug into a nominally 150 kW or 350 kW capable stations (and that limit varies depending on charge state). If Tesla's executed a CCS implementation that means plugging into a station over the car's limit will damage the car, then it seems like a serious failure of their design practice in meeting the specifications, and not an issue any other manufacturer is having implementing CCS.

 

[SageBrush]

If Tesla's executed a CCS implementation that means plugging into a station over the car's limit will damage the car, then it seems like a serious failure of their design practice in meeting the specifications, and not an issue any other manufacturer is having implementing CCS.

The other way around. The car asks for more current than the adapter can handle

 

[Xelloss99]

Yeah, I think that is an example of what to avoid. I'm not sure why it is labeled as a "150 kW" Charger. As these things usually go, the max kW rating is calculated as max-current * max voltage, so 0.35*950 = 332 kW

The dispensers are all the same for the BTCpower units, they are the same for 150 kW vs 350 kW, it is just a selectable maximum setting when they commission the unit, then they slap the placard on the front with what they set the limit to.

Tesla is more than capable of setting whatever limit they want in the car firmware. It's going to be uniquely identificable as CCS (using PLC protocol) so it knows it is the CCS adapter. It is more than capable of doing this (setting to 125A/50 kW) when it identifies CHAdeMO (or the Setec adapter spoofing a CHAdeMO adapter).

There might be two reasons for this notice:
1. To indicate that you aren't necessarily going to get what's listed on the charger if your car can't take that power (limited by pack voltage and charger current),
2. To cover the case of cars that didn't get a firmware update yet to set the limit to 300A if the default as-shipped firmware (possibly with EU CCS2 limits) is higher than 300A and the car hasn't been updated with the 300A CCS1 adapter limit yet.

 

[MD-2000]

The other way around. The car asks for more current than the adapter can handle

But the car knows it is talking to a CCS charger (Speaks a different language/protocol than Superchargers). Also knows how much current/voltage it can handle in the car. Plus, the assumption would be that the CCS is coming to the vehicle via an adapter of course; and using the assumption "well, it must be a Tesla adapter" can limit the current and voltage to what their own adapter can handle. Again, use third party adapters at your peril, especially passive ones.

I guess another question is - "so what was SETEC doing?" I assume it was pretending to be a Supercharger? Or that they hacked how the ChaDEMO adapter talked to the car to enable fast charging? Still that was an active adapter so it was up to the adapter to limit the current.

 

[Xelloss99]

But the car knows it is talking to a CCS charger (Speaks a different language/protocol than Superchargers). Also knows how much current/voltage it can handle in the car. Plus, the assumption would be that the CCS is coming to the vehicle via an adapter of course; and using the assumption "well, it must be a Tesla adapter" can limit the current and voltage to what their own adapter can handle. Again, use third party adapters at your peril, especially passive ones.

I guess another question is - "so what was SETEC doing?" I assume it was pretending to be a Supercharger? Or that they hacked how the ChaDEMO adapter talked to the car to enable fast charging? Still that was an active adapter so it was up to the adapter to limit the current.

Setec was emulating the "Tesla" side of the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter so from the Tesla point of view it was a "CHAdeMO adapter".

On the Model 3/Y, the car firmware set the limit to whatever the adapter said it was capable of, or 125A, whichever was lower. So you could only get 125A even
if the charger and adapter can go higher (the CHAdeMO adapter would say it is capable of 125A or the charger's capability, whichever is lower, while the Setec adapter would say it is capable of 200A or the charger's capability, whichever is lower)

With a real CHAdeMO adapter on the Model S/X the car didn't set any limit and it depended on what the adapter told it. The CHAdeMO side of the CHAdeMO adapter polled the CHAdeMO station and sent the limit to the car as to whatever the charger was capable of or 125A, whichever was lower.
With the Setec adapter, the adapter set the limit to 200A or whatever the charge was capable of, whatever was lower so the car could go higher than 125A.
Newer Raven Model S and X (and probably 2021 refresh) with recent firmware had their firmware changed to behave like the Model 3/Y with a car firmware limit so it too will cap out at 125A no matter what the adapter told it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

But the car knows it is talking to a CCS charger (Speaks a different language/protocol than Superchargers). Also knows how much current/voltage it can handle in the car. Plus, the assumption would be that the CCS is coming to the vehicle via an adapter of course; and using the assumption "well, it must be a Tesla adapter" can limit the current and voltage to what their own adapter can handle. Again, use third party adapters at your peril, especially passive ones.

Yeah, Tesla will have a way to detect CCS adapter is in use and set appropriate limits. The warning is likely so that people don't come with the false expectation that the car can necessarily charge at the nameplate limit of some of the faster CCS chargers due to the 300A limit. People need to keep in mind we are doing a google translate on the warning so things may be lost in translation , plus the USA/NA warning might be worded differently.

I guess another question is - "so what was SETEC doing?" I assume it was pretending to be a Supercharger? Or that they hacked how the ChaDEMO adapter talked to the car to enable fast charging? Still that was an active adapter so it was up to the adapter to limit the current.

It was pretending to be a CHAdeMO adapter. There was an experimental firmware that probably pretended to be a Supercharger, but that fried 2 cars (may have been more, but 2 cases are known), and they didn't go anywhere with that.

 

[kayak1]

My question is will the adapter support plug and charge?

 

[MP3Mike]

My question is will the adapter support plug and charge?

I doubt it. I don't think they support Plug-and-Charge in Europe with the CCS capable cars/adapters.

 

[kayak1]

I doubt it. I don't think they support Plug-and-Charge in Europe with the CCS capable cars/adapters.

I will just put it on the wish list, behind FSD.

I won't get rid of my CHAdeMO Adapter but will be very happy to get my hands on the CCS adapter.

 

[Jeff N]

I'm not aware of any CCS charger that can supply 750 amps. I think they all top out at 350A. (And 1000v to get the 350kW, which very few cars have voltage anywhere near that.)

The CCS chargers that are labeled as 350 kW support up to 500A (for at least ~10 minutes — some might not support 500A continuous). They have other internal limits that prevent output above 350 kW so when charging at 800V, they don’t support putting out more than around 437A.