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Canuck
Well-Known Member
No once can direct you to this information since there are no reporting requirements if you are under the legal minimum so no database exists. You need to get this information from industry insiders and it's not something they want to disclose. But just think of transporting vehicles across country, or across oceans, onto large holding lots, onto dealer lots, being driven by people without much driving experience since these are low paying, high turnover jobs, and they are usually driving vehicles they have never driven before, etc., etc.
This is exactly why I find the laws (when properly followed) acceptable and both moral and ethical. Car prices would have to go up if it was any other way since they have to make up for lost revenue and, at the end of the day, what you don't know doesn't hurt you (at least in this situation the vast majority of the time).
I believe Tesla only told him about it because he was buying it and was scheduled to pick it up. If that was not the case, I think Tesla would have fixed it and not disclosed it. I also find this acceptable and not dishonest. There has to be a line drawn as to what must be disclosed and the legislation I quoted does that. If people don't like that, that is why we elect our legislators and all legislation can be revoked or amended. We have collectively decided this line as a society. The problem with legislation is special interest and lobbyist, which a whole other issue.
So I spoke to the regional manager and they offered me 2 years of service (value of $1200) and a rental car for the 3+ weeks until it's repaired.. I'm not at all happy with this compensation, considering the resale value on a car that has been in accident is going to drop the value significantly more than $1200. For those people who say it may not be on Carfax and therefore I don't have to disclose it to the person I'd later sell it to, let me tell you that's very unethical. If you were the one I sold it to in a few years, you would want to know that the car had the entire rear fender and trunk replaced. They did offer to give me an Enterprise rental car in the meantime while the car is getting fixed (they said there are no available Tesla's they can let me use).
Overall I'm completely pissed. I've heard some people in this forum say if I got a t-shirt I should be happy, but obviously this situation did not happen to you.
PS. This car cost me over $130,000 for an 'inventory' car! (incl. taxes).
Overall I'm completely pissed. I've heard some people in this forum say if I got a t-shirt I should be happy, but obviously this situation did not happen to you.
PS. This car cost me over $130,000 for an 'inventory' car! (incl. taxes).
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Krugerrand
Meow
It's not unethical. The car was backed into a pole at low speed. Damage was only cosmetic. That's not even remotely the same as a car being in an 'on road accident' where the frame gets cracked or bent and the like. The latter is what 'reporting of accidents is for', so that someone doesn't unknowingly buy a vehicle that's been in a serious accident that might affect the SAFETY and useability of the vehicle.
No I wouldn't. There's nothing back there of any concern to me or the operation of the vehicle.
It's entirely within your rights and abilities to not purchase the vehicle. If you don't like what they're willing to do, the don't buy the car. Now you're just being 'pissed' to be 'pissed'.
I can tell you from my personal experience (see my post upthread) that I was about to purchase an inventory car and was told by Tesla, while waiting for the car to be returned by another customer from "loan", that the car had been previously damaged and repaired. I would have had no idea the car had been in a minor accident previously had Tesla not alerted me to that fact.
I would probably just let someone else deal with this and pass on the car. They aren't going to be able to make you happy with this particular car so probably best to just move on and find an alternative. Sucks but not much else you can do I think. Are they able to find any other inventory or CPO cars that you like or have you considered buying new?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Technically correct but with there are two exemptions to CA 3% rule:
California Vehicle Code 9990 says damage to components that are bolted or attached to the vehicle, such as bumpers, tires and glass are exempt from this disclosure requirement only if replaced with identical new, original manufacture’s components-unless the repairs exceed 10% of the manufacture’s suggested price.
And:
New car dealer’s demonstrator vehicles are legally considered used cars, so these disclosure laws do not apply, even if the dealer gives a new car warranty.
http://troubleshooterjudd.com/undisclosed-new-car-damage/
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It happened to me. In 2008 I bought a brand new, top of the line, Tahoe Hybrid (not a cheap vehicle at the time). When I went to pick it up, they told me they accidentally damaged it and it was in the shop getting fixed. (It was damaged as it came off the transport truck - worse than your vehicle - a large scrape down one side). And I didn't even get a t-shirt. In fact, the manager told me I should be happy they even told me about since they had no requirement to do so. Yes, I was irked but I've learned life is too short to sweat the small stuff or get pissed off over material things like you do.
I think they made you a great offer. But like others have said, move on and find another vehicle.
perkiset
... this one goes to 11
Man, no lie. If you're that concerned before you have it, every little squeak and wiggle will piss you off.
Get a new one.
mobe
Member
The solution is very simple.
Pass on this car and find another.
They have an entire factory full of folks cranking new ones out by the hundreds every day.
They'll make more.
I know you don't want to wait, but I would order one built just the way I want it.
After the new one comes, you will not be bothered by the wait.
If you buy this one now, you will regret it for the entire time you own it.
At this price point I would not even consider anything but a made to order car.
Honestly, it's only a few thousand more dollars for a built to order, with all the manufacturing upgrades NEW car built JUST FOR YOU!
Pass on this car and find another.
They have an entire factory full of folks cranking new ones out by the hundreds every day.
They'll make more.
I know you don't want to wait, but I would order one built just the way I want it.
After the new one comes, you will not be bothered by the wait.
If you buy this one now, you will regret it for the entire time you own it.
At this price point I would not even consider anything but a made to order car.
Honestly, it's only a few thousand more dollars for a built to order, with all the manufacturing upgrades NEW car built JUST FOR YOU!
AMPd
Well-Known Member
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I don't think I'd buy a car at half that price if I wasn't perfectly happy with it. Hit the CPO consolidator (unofficial website that is quite useful) and the Model S configuration on the official Tesla website and consider your options
Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live
Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors
So many changes in this thread and that, I've read both but it wasn't easy to keep up with.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Right. They conveyed what concessions they were willing to make, and they're not enough to justify purchasing the car. It sucks, but it's time to move on. He's not alone. I don't think I'd knowingly pay full asking price for a repainted car with major components replacements. Maybe you could successfully keep it a secret, but if discovered you'd take a huge hit when you sell.
I do find this a bit curious, though. Accident damage, particularly when undisclosed, are essentially the definition of "what you don't know can hurt you," which is why laws exist to protect buyers from this kind of thing. This looks relatively minor, but what if the crash structure under the bumper cover was damaged and doesn't get repaired or repaired properly? I got rear-ended once and a highly-rated collision repair shop missed a hairline fracture in the crash bar that I noticed when replacing a taillight lens. Mistakes happen.
There also the possibility that the person you try to sell the car to has a sharper eye than your own and notices the car was repainted or damage you didn't know was there the entire time you owned the vehicle. That would hurt you as well.
Presumably Tesla could get it repaired to like new condition, and maybe they'd even be able to match the paint without the texture being a dead giveaway, but it's still a hugely expensive vehicle. If I knew it wasn't going to meet my expectations before I even bought it, I'd just keep looking.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Wait, what? It's NOT 'your car'. You didn't buy it. How can you be 'completely pissed' over something that isn't even yours?
You can choose to buy it or find another inventory car. Tesla didn't have to offer you anything. You don't have to buy it. And saying 'this car cost me over $130,000'? What? You haven't taken delivery. What exactly has it cost you?
I get that you're disappointed and were excited about getting this car. Things happen. No one backed it into a pole on purpose. $1200 worth of service is a big deal. Take it or keep shopping. NO ONE is forcing you to do anything you don't want to do.
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FYI - I bought a Roadster for far more $ than you're fussing about & all I got was a Roadster and a keychain. (totally worth it, btw)
Krugerrand
Meow
Yes, thank you. I've made that correction later on in the thread.
No, it is not. OP was getting a significant discount and it has 1,000 miles on it.
You can't make a damaged car 'new' (technically), but Tesla is going to fix it. They then threw in additional deals and services, which they did not have to. OP isn't happy with those concessions so he just needs to move on and call it a day.
Discount and miles does not mean it isn't new. For titling purposes, the car is brand new. If it weren't, it would not qualify for federal tax credits and state rebates. In Arizona, the buyer of an inventory car would have to pay sales tax because it is being titled as a new car, whereas the buyer of a CPO car would not pay sales tax because a CPO was previously titled, and therefore, is considered a used vehicle.
Yes. For titling purposes is it new. After how many hundreds or thousands of miles is a car no longer considered new to the average buyer though? I'd guess that most wouldn't consider a car sitting on a dealership lot with 1 or 2 thousand miles to be a 'new' car even if it had never been titled before.
gizmoboy
Member
The only thing this cost you was the opportunity cost on your (presumably) now-refundable deposit.
That's not nothing, but there's no way it's $1200.
I understand that you wanted this car, at this deal, in perfect condition. It didn't happen. You wanted a concession, and they offered one (more generous than I expected), but it didn't satisfy you. All good so far; you are certainly entitled to feel any way you wish about the process.
You are entitled to nothing more than your money back and a genuine apology AFAICT.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
For titling purposes, yes. But the reality is, it is not new. Unless you'd be okay with buying a new car with several thousand miles on it. (I suspect you'd call that 'used'.)
Krugerrand
Meow
Semantics. If it was considered 'new', Tesla wouldn't have offered a $8,500 discount on it. And you know it.
gizmoboy
Member
A thousand miles driven by dozens of different people in "yee haw" mode definitely feels like used to me...
