Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

I'm sure this will be a sticky on all of the vehicle forums shortly:

NHTSA Recalls Every Tesla Equipped With 'Full Self-Driving Beta' Over Crash Risks

The safety agency is requiring a software update to Tesla Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, saying FSD Beta "may allow the vehicle to act unsafe."

jalopnik.com

(moderator note: related threads here…)
FSD Recall? in Software
Recall FUD in Uk

"Full Self Driving Tesla" by rulenumberone2 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[stopcrazypp]

They might have a point...

There's a road near where I live with a 30 MPH speed limit. Whenever FSD turns onto that road, it speeds up to 55 MPH until it gets to the 30 MPH speed limit sign. I'm guessing it's bad map data.

I have no idea how they could fix that in FSD, though. As a human, without knowing what the speed limit was on a street, you would follow traffic or proceed cautiously until you see a speed limit sign. I've noticed the Beta started being more cautious when it speeds up a few months ago, but it's not enough to properly handle this situation.

You are assuming NHTSA is talking about bad map data. The way I read it is more like NHTSA does not want Tesla to let the driver set the speed much higher than the speed limit (which currently plenty of people do):
"the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits".

 

[azred]

Tesla’s crack PR Department’s response to the recall:

 

[DanCar]

“traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, —-. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits.”

Tesla doesn’t view these as problems?

Under what conditions does it occur? Does the driver have to specifically put the car in the wrong lane?

 

[stopcrazypp]

“traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, —-. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits.”

Tesla doesn’t view these as problems?

Yes, Tesla likely does not view this as problems because humans do this all the time.

For the turn only lane, when they get into the wrong lane, they aren't going to follow it and go out of their way just to get back to the correct road, they will simply try to change back out of that turn only lane even if it wasn't technically legal. As long as it is safely done, it's not generally considered a problem.

On the speed limit issue, many people set the set speed a lot higher than the speed limit on purpose, because that is the way to keep up with the flow of traffic. This may be a deal breaker for a lot of people if NHTSA does not allow this (especially if it ends applying to AP also).

 

[ljbad4life]

I think we as a "tesla community" need to sober up from time to time from the Tesla kool-aid. We paid to be beta testers, the other drivers, bicyclists and pedestrians did not and we need to be mindful of that. If there's an inherent flaw it needs to be fixed full stop. No other level 2 system operates anywhere NEAR pedestrians or cyclists who are far more likely to get injured or killed in an accident.

My personal experience with FSDb, it's really shaking in dense urban areas and it get better the further from a city center I go. I'm overly cause given the statement above and the safety of myself and others is paramount to any technology.

It's being fixed and that's what counts the most. Perhaps driving laws need to be updated to allow for "wide" turns. Everyone does it.

 

[filezz]

and so it begins again..

 

[2101Guy]

“traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, —-. In addition, the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits.”

Tesla doesn’t view these as problems?

Per some TMC persons, NONE of it is a problem since the fine print (not to be confused with Elons statements) in the disclaimer says "you the driver are responsible at all times".

apparently the NHTSA feels a bit..differently..

 

[2101Guy]

I think we as a "tesla community" need to sober up from time to time from the Tesla kool-aid.

Yep!

 

[Supcom]

You are assuming NHTSA is talking about bad map data. The way I read it is more like NHTSA does not want Tesla to let the driver set the speed much higher than the speed limit (which currently plenty of people do):
"the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits".

I believe that this is referring to the well-known issue that the car does not slow down quickly enough when the speed limit drops from, say, 55 mph to 30 mph. This happens a lot on rural highways when you enter a small town. You don't see it much in cities because there's likely to be another car in front of you that forces your speed down. But, on rural highways, there often is no car ahead of you and FSDb takes a long time to slow down. I've gotten in the habit of simply disengaging FSDb for a few seconds so regen brings down the speed and reengaging FSDb.

It's a shame this has gone so long without a fix. I expect that it should be a straightforward thing to correct.

The trickier issue will likely be the one related to the car going straight through a turn-only lane. I can only recall this happening to me once, a long time ago, so maybe it's been corrected? I did have the car get stuck in a right-turn-only lane recently due to heavy traffic. The car chose to make the turn rather than wait for traffic to clear even though it had to reroute. So, maybe this is improved already?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Per some TMC persons, NONE of it is a problem since the fine print (not to be confused with Elons statements) in the disclaimer says "you the driver are responsible at all times".

apparently the NHTSA feels a bit..differently..

Lol, so you are ok if NHTSA requires you to never be able to set your set speed higher than the speed limit? I will grab my pitchfork, if this is what it ends up being, especially if it might eventually apply to AP.

 

[Dewg]

remove my ability to roll up my windows when I walk away from the car or from the app.

I can see why this became a thing. The issue as I understand it was that the windows weren't reliably handling automatic stops when something got in the way of the window rolling up. I'm not sure if that's a mechanical problem, or a software problem. If it's software, it's something they'll resolve with an update. If it's mechanical, the solution is what they proposed - disabling your ability to remotely roll up the windows. There could be someone in your car when you walk away, and your car locks and starts to roll up the windows, pinching their arm/fingers/etc.

 

[Silicon Desert]

and so it begins again..View attachment 907956

My blood pressure goes up and down more than that percentage during the day I'm not convinced this is the beginning of anything. However, for me, I wait until the dust settles to decide when to buy again.

 

[Dewg]

Lol, so you are ok if NHTSA requires you to never be able to set your set speed higher than the speed limit? I will grab my pitchfork, if this is what it ends up being, especially if it might eventually apply to AP.

I've said this many times, people aren't ready for L3+ from Tesla. L3 or higher will NEVER let the car go above the speed limit. The only reason we can override the speed limit is precisely because it's L2.

 

[2101Guy]

Lol, so you are ok if NHTSA requires you to never be able to set your set speed higher than the speed limit? I will grab my pitchfork, if this is what it ends up being, especially if it might eventually apply to AP.

the slope is rarely (if ever) as slippery as people often make it out to be...

 

[DarkForest]

You are assuming NHTSA is talking about bad map data. The way I read it is more like NHTSA does not want Tesla to let the driver set the speed much higher than the speed limit (which currently plenty of people do):
"the system may respond insufficiently to changes in posted speed limits or not adequately account for the driver's adjustment of the vehicle's speed to exceed posted speed limits".

Ummm. No, I’m not.

I’m assuming the NHTSA is concerned about FSD going 55 MPH in a 30 MPH completely on its own unless the driver intervenes. I’m also assuming the reason FSD does that is bad map data, but it’s irrelevant to NHTSA’s concern. The fact is it happens, in this scenario and others (eg when the posted speed limit drops by 20 MPH, and FSD takes its time to slow down).

 

[GSP]

About the discussion about driving faster than ”the speed limit.” While we can debate the merits of limiting to the speed limit, or maybe to 5-10 mph over, don’t forget the car is often mistaken about what the real speed limit is. Being limited to 25 mph in a 55 zone is a problem. IMO the driver *must* be allowed to adjust to the correct speed limit, regardless of how much that is over the car’s perceived speed limit.

GSP

 

[DarkForest]

I've said this many times, people aren't ready for L3+ from Tesla. L3 or higher will NEVER let the car go above the speed limit. The only reason we can override the speed limit is precisely because it's L2.

Yup. I think this is true for drivers and traffic in general. As a driver, I’ve taught myself to be cool with going the speed limit, but the traffic around me doesn’t always like it (eg during rush hour on a two lane road that doesn’t let people easily pass me).

 

[2101Guy]

Ummm. No, I’m not.

I’m assuming the NHTSA is concerned about FSD going 55 MPH in a 30 MPH completely on its own unless the driver intervenes. I’m also assuming the reason FSD does that is bad map data, but it’s irrelevant to NHTSA’s concern. The fact is it happens, in this scenario and others (eg when the posted speed limit drops by 20 MPH, and FSD takes its time to slow down).

This is such a key point, and somewhat of a running theme. Persons here like to point out the technical minutia and blame that. ("its the makers of the map data's fault, not Teslas!".) When in reality, a customer DOESNT CARE. They simply expect the car to perform in a manner that's consistent with how the CEO paints the picture of how it is expected to perform.

Its why the map data makers arent under fire by the government/lobbyists/NHTSA/law firms....Tesla is...

 

[Dewg]

About the discussion about driving faster than ”the speed limit.” While we can debate the merits of limiting to the speed limit, or maybe to 5-10 mph over, don’t forget the car is often mistaken about what the real speed limit is. Being limited to 25 mph in a 55 zone is a problem. IMO the driver *must* be allowed to adjust to the correct speed limit, regardless of how much that is over the car’s perceived speed limit.

GSP

With an L2 ADAS system, you absolutely can.

 

[EVNow]

and so it begins again..View attachment 907956

LOL. Have you seen Nasdaq ?