Tesla Begrudgingly “Recalls” FSD Beta for NHTSA

I'm sure this will be a sticky on all of the vehicle forums shortly:

NHTSA Recalls Every Tesla Equipped With 'Full Self-Driving Beta' Over Crash Risks

The safety agency is requiring a software update to Tesla Model S, Model X, Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, saying FSD Beta "may allow the vehicle to act unsafe."

jalopnik.com

(moderator note: related threads here…)
FSD Recall? in Software
Recall FUD in Uk

"Full Self Driving Tesla" by rulenumberone2 is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[mtbwalt]

Although I’m sure the NHTSA leadership is grinning and high-fiving at forcing another “recall,” in the end their perpetual Tesla investigation amounts to little other than a free QA and safety review producing minor tweaks and refinements in the FSD software and puts Tesla even further ahead.

It’s easy to grouse about pet peeves with the software but in the end nobody is more advanced or even close in the consumer market. I have owned my MS for 366 days and FSD Beta has improved substantially in that time.

 

[CyberGus]

Maybe the fix is suspending FSD.

I would be easier to suspend NHTSA

 

[emmz0r]

Will the "recall" mean fixing all the incorrect speed limits? They should fire their current map provider for those.

 

[nvx1977]

maybe a better word would be remedy / remediation, which is just a fancy way to say "needs fix". No implication of having to move the location of the car.

 

[CyberGus]

Will the "recall" mean fixing all the incorrect speed limits? They should fire their current map provider for those.

• The maps should be a base reference only, with actual conditions and visible signs taking precedence.
• If local signs conflict with the maps, this should get pushed to the Mothership to be reviewed for updates.
• The mapping provider should be replaced if they cannot accept and process such updates in a timely fashion.

Remember when Google announced they were going to photograph every street in the world, and that sounded crazy? They did it! Sometimes you can even see their mapping-enabled cars. But I see Teslas everywhere I go, a fleet of millions of cameras reading every sign and signal in their path. This data should make for the most accurate maps in history.

 

[derotam]

FSD can read the signs, it just DGAF

Same with Speed Limit Signs. I thought it was supposed to read those and apply them but I have 2 speed limit signs that I pass that the car ignores. There is a no left turn sign, and a STOP sign that it ignores as well.

 

[mtbwalt]

Same with Speed Limit Signs. I thought it was supposed to read those and apply them but I have 2 speed limit signs that I pass that the car ignores. There is a no left turn sign, and a STOP sign that it ignores as well.

Does your other car autonomously do better with those signs?

You are applying level 5 expectations to a level 2 system. YOU are the driver, not the car.

 

[₸≡≶⦜⩝ ⩎⦙⊮≡]

Does this effect cars with Enhanced Autopilot (beta)?

 

[emmz0r]

• The maps should be a base reference only, with actual conditions and visible signs taking precedence.
• If local signs conflict with the maps, this should get pushed to the Mothership to be reviewed for updates.
• The mapping provider should be replaced if they cannot accept and process such updates in a timely fashion.

Remember when Google announced they were going to photograph every street in the world, and that sounded crazy? They did it! Sometimes you can even see their mapping-enabled cars. But I see Teslas everywhere I go, a fleet of millions of cameras reading every sign and signal in their path. This data should make for the most accurate maps in history.

None of this is happening right now though. Maps even dictate what signs to read. And they seem to have totally neglected updates and maintenance of this map data.

 

[2101Guy]

Does your other car autonomously do better with those signs?

You are applying level 5 expectations to a level 2 system. YOU are the driver, not the car.

No, but the other car makers CEO's also arent making wild claims about what their product can do. AI/ML/DOJO/GIGA/Level5/1 million Robotaxis/SingleStack/Carslearningfromeachother...

 

[derotam]

Does your other car autonomously do better with those signs?

You are applying level 5 expectations to a level 2 system. YOU are the driver, not the car.

But that is not the point, and I am not applying level 5 expectations. I am applying what has been said by Elon about the functionality of the vehicle and more importanatly what it says in the manual(which is consistant with what Elon has said btw). The manual goes over stop signs and speed limit signs and implies(at a minimum) that the vehicle can and does(at least attempts) read and apply these signs to its operation. In my specific scenarios, the vehicle does not account for these specific signs(1 specific stop and 2 different speed limit signs). The vehicle's cameras are not blocked or otherwise blinded by anything.

My issue is that if it is not programmed to apply these visually seen signs for whatever reason(geographical, specific road, specific geo area...etc) and it is looking up data somewhere else then I would like to be able to correct that data or ask for that data to be corrected. People talk about Tesla using OSM data but I can show that in these specific scenarios it is NOT using OSM data. Someone mentioned TOMTOM data, but for reasons I won't get into here I don't really believe Tesla would be using TomTom generated(by that company) data.

 

[DanCar]

Double down on the lies claim all you want, doesn't make it true. NHTSA and Tesla are just following industry practice and using industry terminology correctly. No lies or misinformation here.

Sorry, Tesla / Elon says it is a lie / wrong.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626292856112705536

 

[EVNow]

I'm sorry it seems to make you confused and angry, but this event is what the automotive industry calls a 'recall'.

Legacy Auto industry actually "recalls" the cars (to the dealership) to fix. Thats how the name came about and practiced. That is how the customers understand the term.

Using the same term to describe a OTA fix is confusing. They should use a term like "hotfix" ....or "patch", that is common in the software industry.

Just the way industry now uses "streaming" to distinguish between cable / OTA TV and content served through internet.

 

[derotam]

I don't have a problem with calling a Safety Recall a Safety Recall no matter what the fix is. For example, if Tesla updates their code and that code causes the brakes to stop working then what is the problem with calling that a safety defect and issuing a safety recall? Just because they can fix it with an OTA software update doesn't make it less of a safety issue.... How about a recall for a traditional ICE vehicle manufacturer that needs to reprogram the main computer? Just because they can't do an OTA means they have to call it a recall vs if they could have done it OTA then it's not a recall?

The purpose of an actual Safety Recall is to hold the manufacturer accountable for getting the issue fixed, as well as Dealerships accountable to ensure recalls are completed and to provide a paper trail to show the recall was addressed on a specific vehicle.

Now separating out what should and should not be called a recall/safety recall, that is a separate discussion.

 

[kabin]

There's all sorts of possibilities including euphemisms but the bottom line is safety, removing issues increasing the risk of death/injury, and Tesla knowing what it needs to do. The NHTSA recall system works as is.

 

[WyoDude]

No, but the other car makers CEO's also arent making wild claims about what their product can do. AI/ML/DOJO/GIGA/Level5/1 million Robotaxis/SingleStack/Carslearningfromeachother...

Ha, this is such an ignorant argument.

 

[Tam]

Maybe the fix is suspending FSD.

Tesla is an expert in delays just like the promise of self driving by the end of this year or next year perpetually.

Tesla did do a recall to fix the rolling stop

Update Vehicle Firmware to Disable FSD Beta “Rolling Stop” Functionality | Tesla Support

Tesla proactively issued a recall for certain US and Canada vehicles that received software version 2020.40.4.10 or newer that contained the Full Self-Driving (Beta) feature. This recall affects only those FSD Beta participants who installed this software. The release software update introduced...

www.tesla.com

However, that seems to be another delay tactic because it is still an issue for this latest recall.

 

[mtbwalt]

Through some miracle, each of us was blessed with being able to afford a mostly (with driver assist) self driving car that updates itself with new features and has acceleration that I for one never expected to own on a daily driver.

It amazes me that cynics can find things to bloviate about, and how quickly the amazing features of the vehicle even as it exists today become something to quibble about. I can hear Veruca Salt yelling, “I want a REAL full self driving car, Daddy!”

Hats off to the pessimists. I will enjoy my life, and my car. Thanks to the tens of thousands of visionaries and workers at Tesla for making such a sublime and revolutionary vehicle.

 

[derotam]

Tesla is an expert in delays just like the promise of self driving by the end of this year or next year perpetually.

Tesla did do a recall to fix the rolling stop

Update Vehicle Firmware to Disable FSD Beta “Rolling Stop” Functionality | Tesla Support

Tesla proactively issued a recall for certain US and Canada vehicles that received software version 2020.40.4.10 or newer that contained the Full Self-Driving (Beta) feature. This recall affects only those FSD Beta participants who installed this software. The release software update introduced...

www.tesla.com

However, that seems to be another delay tactic because it is still an issue for this latest recall.

Now that was an interesting one because that was a user function that could be turned on or off by the user and I think it was defaulted to off. Now while it fits the narrative of being a safety issue, technically it is a user issue because they would have to explicitly enable it first. The other issue specific to the rolling stop is the actual safety aspect...Think of the "if a tree falls in the forest...". If you run a stop sign and no one is around to see it and you could see that no one was around, then were you being unsafe?

Again, I think more descriptors are necessary for NHTSA to properly differentiate between different types of recalls.

 

[BobDolesGhost]

It amazes me that cynics can find things to bloviate about

Bloviate hmmm? I consider myself to have a pretty good vocabulary, but definitely never heard of that one haha. For others I'm sure don't know it as well:

Bloviate: To talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.

Lets see if I can fit that in today's conversations lol