Tesla BEV Competition Developments

[RobStark]

...or Asia. We have benefitted greatly from decades of open trade with Japan, Korea, and especially China.

No, we should not be funding China's military. That has nuclear weapons aimed at the United States and is broiling to invade Taiwan. We need to disentangle ourselves from China.

The Washington Consensus said increased trade with China would bring a bigger Middle Class which would bring increasing democratization. We now have de facto one man rule in China. In the middle of the Covid crisis China threatened to stop supplying basic chemicals we used to make medicines and vaccines. Chinese media threated a "tsunami of Covid on America." No thanks to this dependency.

Japanese car companies have have 39% US automotive market share.

Tesla sells a few thousand cars in Japan. And GM also sells a few thousand cars in Japan mostly rebadged Japanese cars. Something needs to be done. We don't have free trade with Japan. We have open markets to Japanese goods while Japan has mostly closed markets to American goods.

We just signed a new trade deal with South Korea a few years ago. Need to see how that plays out.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

No, we should not be funding China's military. That has nuclear weapons aimed at the United States and is broiling to invade Taiwan. We need to disentangle ourselves from China.

The Washington Consensus said increased trade with China would bring a bigger Middle Class which would bring increasing democratization. We now have de facto one man rule in China. In the middle of the Covid crisis China threatened to stop supplying basic chemicals we used to make medicines and vaccines. Chinese media threated a "tsunami of Covid on America." No thanks to this dependency.

Japanese car companies have have 39% US automotive market share.

Tesla sells a few thousand cars in Japan. And GM also sells a few thousand cars in Japan mostly rebadged Japanese cars. Something needs to be done. We don't have free trade with Japan. We have open markets to Japanese goods while Japan has mostly closed markets to American goods.

We just signed a new trade deal with South Korea a few years ago. Need to see how that plays out.

Sorry, but I just don't see GM and Ford being capable of competing in the Japanese auto market. BEV's in general don't seem to be doing too well in the Japanese market either, so it's not due to any closed/open market mentality.

The chinese market is a completely different story, so I agree that the playing field isn't level with them. As for South Korea, time will tell what their culture supports.

 

[RobStark]

Sorry, but I just don't see GM and Ford being capable of competing in the Japanese auto market. BEV's in general don't seem to be doing too well in the Japanese market either, so it's not due to any closed/open market mentality.

Sorry, but there have this or that excuse for 77 years.

BEVs are not doing very well in Japan because the Japanese government has not allowed Tesla to disrupt the local market. And force Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al into the BEV future.

GM and Ford have not been able to compete in Japan for 77 years. Because by hook or crook the Japanese government has not allowed them to.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

To be fair, it's probably been at least 77 years since GM or Ford made a car that competes against Honda or Toyota.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Sorry, but there have this or that excuse for 77 years.

BEVs are not doing very well in Japan because the Japanese government has not allowed Tesla to disrupt the local market. And force Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al into the BEV future.

GM and Ford have not been able to compete in Japan for 77 years. Because by hook or crook the Japanese government has not allowed them to.

I wrote BEV's, because the Nissan Leaf isn't doing very well there either, so that has nothing to do with the openness of the market.

 

[Doggydogworld]

China is facing some problems in the coming years. A demographic wall is coming and it's going to hit them harder than it hit Japan in the early 1990s when it hit them. China has a large cadre of the population hitting retirement age with a much smaller cadre still working. That imbalance will require taxes to go up on the working Chinese to pay for the retirees

China's demographic imbalance is worse than Japan's, but they aren't fully industrialized yet so GDP can still grow even as the working age population gradually declines. Furthermore, the older generation in China has a crazy-high savings rate and does not expect huge government pensions.

I'm not saying they will breeze through, just that they should have it better than Japan. Unless Xi really screws up.

Another thing China is facing is they are losing their biggest advantage in manufacturing.

They're handling this pretty well with automation and moving up the value chain. They'll keep moving low-value manufacturing inland and/or to places like Viet Nam.

US manufacturing come back is taking full advantage of automation to make things as cheap as possible with as few people as possible. When US factories are back, they will often be able to undercut China on cost as well as produce high quality.

No, we won't undercut China on cost. Not even close. Biden and his union sponsors are no fans of automation, either. We need to reduce dependency on China, but it's going to be expensive (i.e. inflationary).

 

[wdolson]

No, we should not be funding China's military. That has nuclear weapons aimed at the United States and is broiling to invade Taiwan. We need to disentangle ourselves from China.

The Washington Consensus said increased trade with China would bring a bigger Middle Class which would bring increasing democratization. We now have de facto one man rule in China. In the middle of the Covid crisis China threatened to stop supplying basic chemicals we used to make medicines and vaccines. Chinese media threated a "tsunami of Covid on America." No thanks to this dependency.

Japanese car companies have have 39% US automotive market share.

Tesla sells a few thousand cars in Japan. And GM also sells a few thousand cars in Japan mostly rebadged Japanese cars. Something needs to be done. We don't have free trade with Japan. We have open markets to Japanese goods while Japan has mostly closed markets to American goods.

We just signed a new trade deal with South Korea a few years ago. Need to see how that plays out.

At one point the US pushed Japan to allow more US imports and few people there wanted them. The Japanese population want Japanese cars. US cars are synonymous with junk in the minds of the Japanese people.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Also, the Japanese culture tends to be more aware of social responsibilities. Driving an imported, oversized, and excessively polluting car in Japan purely for the purpose of expressing your "freedom" to be a selfish jerk, is not actually considered "cool" like it is here.

 

[willow_hiller]

Not necessarily a competitor, but interesting in the light of stories like Ford and VW killing Argo AI. George Hotz, the founder of comma.ai, is taking some time away from the company. By the sound of his blog post, it sounds like he's really going through some things: The Hero’s Journey

 

[MP3Mike]

Has anyone heard/ followed a start up out of Mesa Arizona called Atlas Motors (AVM)? Seems that this start up has an order for 19000 trucks for delivery to Australia to a company called AUSEV, a division of BOSSCAP.
Our Dr was talking about this today….

Nxu™ | undefined

www.atlismotorvehicles.com

Delivery is still out a few years? Also they are talking about the battery pack voltage at 1600…..
Seems that they are going for 3/4 ton and up truck/chassis for industry.

The MCS charging standard only goes to 1,250 volts, so it really doesn't make sense to go higher than that. Of course there are ways to work around that, but why?

 

[JRP3]

Atlis not Atlas.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

The MCS charging standard only goes to 1,250 volts, so it really doesn't make sense to go higher than that.

Investors don't know what a volt is, they just think that more of them must be better. Other startups have used this same trick to lure investors, Rivian for example, promised a million volts so that they could raise money, then delivered a regular 400V vehicle.

To be fair, it might actually be a good investment strategy since buyers don't know what a volt is either. Ask any Hyundai/Kia owner about their car and the first thing they'll tell you that it charges in 18 minutes because it has 800 volts.

 

[JRP3]

Impressive review of the Ford Lightning AC inverter output. TLDR it can run an air compressor and a chop saw at the same time.

 

[adiggs]

‘This truck can’t do normal truck things’: YouTube auto star says towing with Ford’s new electric pickup is a ‘total disaster’ in viral video — but Wall Street still likes these 3 EV stocks

It may not be practical — at least for now.

finance.yahoo.com

Thought I'd post this here. Larger article is about impact of towing stuff on range of an EV. All true and well known to anybody that's been using their X/Y to tow stuff. The only surprising bit at this point is its about Ford F150 Lightning and not Hugo (our Model X).


This part though stood out to me.

Hoover might not be pleased with his recent towing experience with the F150 Lightning, but the electric pickup truck is still selling like hotcakes.

In September, Ford delivered 1,918 units of the F150 Lightning, which means the model continues to be America’s best-selling electric pickup. Year to date, it has sold 8,760 units of the model.

The F150 Lightning isn’t the only EV in Ford’s lineup. The company also sold 2,324 units of the Mustang Mach-E SUV and 449 units of the E-Transit van in September. That brings Ford’s EV sales to 4,691 units for the month, representing a 197% increase year over year.

“Ford continued to see high-demand vehicles turning at record rates in September while developing electric truck and van leadership and extending our overall truck leadership,” Andrew Frick, a Ford VP said in a press release. “Demand remains strong with new retail orders rapidly expanding.”

Maybe this really belongs in the FUD thread. "selling like hotcakes". "best selling electric pickup". "197% increase year over year". "high demand vehicles turning at record rates".

Nothing untrue, but ... uhmm .... slanted.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Yeah all those thousands of sales and "best-selling" accolades sound great, and are great, but the reader should really be given some perspective on what those numbers actually mean,

It's only Tuesday, and yet Ford's week-to-date Fossil-150 sales have already exceeded the Lightning's year-to-date sales. 8760 units is barely more than an early production run for crash testing and stuff.

 

[MC3OZ]

Lucid launch event, 2 new models.

I will watch and report anything interesting.

Just seems like lower spec models of their existing design.

Entry level Air-Pure from $87,400 that is their cheapest model.

I stopped watching around 1/2 through, their products will suit some customers.

 

[JRP3]

Kia EV6 GT seems like fun

 

[RobStark]

PEV sales Jan-Oct 2022

BEV sales Jan-Oct 2022

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600279979001905153

 

[JRP3]

VinFast IPO

Vietnamese EV maker VinFast files to go public in the U.S.

VinFast, Vietnam's only domestic automaker, announced plans to go public in the United States.

www.cnbc.com