skitown
Member
I wouldn't have called the Chief Engineer a "driver / representative" if I'd seen her title. I'll retreat to my hole. Should have watched it thoroughly before commenting.
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Tesla BEV Competition Developments
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I wouldn't have called the Chief Engineer a "driver / representative" if I'd seen her title. I'll retreat to my hole. Should have watched it thoroughly before commenting.
Off Shore
Off Topic Member
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Sometimes we miss things. I've had more damaging misses.
I grew up in an Asian neighborhood in the Los Angeles area. Most of the Chinese I knew who had been born in the US had a western first name, though many 1st or 2nd gen Americans had a Chinese name too. About half the immigrants adopted a western name when they moved here and by the time I got to college most had adopted a western name.
Chinese is a tonal language. The inflection you put on a word can drastically change it's meaning. Native Chinese speakers do find it funny sometimes like native English speakers find Engrish funny, but when your name is mangled into something that maybe is not all that polite by westerners it's easier to change your name to something they can pronounce without social faux pas.
Here are some examples:
Top 9 Funniest Chinese Homophones
I picked up a little bit of Japanese, but almost no Chinese. Though I would think punning in Chinese would be pretty easy.
a Japanese perspective
'Made in China 2025' forges ahead with EV dominance in sight
As far as the Japanese are concerned, it seems that Panasonic's scale leadership (Tesla/Toyota) has ended. Actually it seems that each of the top 5 here has held the position of global market leader for EV batteries during the past decade. (which i find is interesting)
Ie Panasonic, BYD, LG, AESC. But with CATL coming out of nowhere to ascend to leadership, implies that it is now permanently in the Chinese hands.
I would expect that the count includes EV batteries include trucks and buses, Tesla is still to sell their trucks, plenty of BYD and CATL buses and trucks are already at customers.
The follow on 5 companies (Samsung and 4 Chinese companies) make for a hungry set of competitors.
'Made in China 2025' forges ahead with EV dominance in sight
As far as the Japanese are concerned, it seems that Panasonic's scale leadership (Tesla/Toyota) has ended. Actually it seems that each of the top 5 here has held the position of global market leader for EV batteries during the past decade. (which i find is interesting)
Ie Panasonic, BYD, LG, AESC. But with CATL coming out of nowhere to ascend to leadership, implies that it is now permanently in the Chinese hands.
I would expect that the count includes EV batteries include trucks and buses, Tesla is still to sell their trucks, plenty of BYD and CATL buses and trucks are already at customers.
The follow on 5 companies (Samsung and 4 Chinese companies) make for a hungry set of competitors.
This can’t be right? Panasonic has been ramping a “Samsung” this quarter, ie. about 4GWh from 24 to 28 ish at GF1. So they are making 28+ 8 = 36 GWh now, or their production rate is at a yearly level of 36. That also conveniently puts them back on top. And shows that all the legacy automakers today have capacity from all the non-Chinese battery makers to maybe make 200k long range cars.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
28 GWh is a peak rate and includes non-EV cells. Panasonic will make cells for ~300k Model 3s and ~60k S/X in 2019. That's 27 GWh total. The chart says they made 23 GWh in 2018, but that might include ~2 GWh for PEVE/Toyota. CATL has been more than doubling each year, even if they slow down it seems they'll remain #1.
There were a couple of comments about Toyota's Fuel Cell efforts up thread. Thought I'd chime in with some data points.
* I know one fellow who has (had now?) a leased Mirai. Last I heard he was trying to break the lease.
* Was at the Steven's Creek Toyota dealership a week or two ago to get our Prius checked out prior to giving it to a relation. The guys at the service desks mentioned the dealership was losing money on every Mirai they sold. They didn't seem very enthusiastic. It didn't seem to help when I tried to console them by opining that fuel cell cars were likely DOA.
* However, I do very occasionally see them around. Saw one this morning in the Bay Area.
* And there appear to be a few fanbois around for them. I saw this in the greater LA area on Monday:
* I know one fellow who has (had now?) a leased Mirai. Last I heard he was trying to break the lease.
* Was at the Steven's Creek Toyota dealership a week or two ago to get our Prius checked out prior to giving it to a relation. The guys at the service desks mentioned the dealership was losing money on every Mirai they sold. They didn't seem very enthusiastic. It didn't seem to help when I tried to console them by opining that fuel cell cars were likely DOA.
* However, I do very occasionally see them around. Saw one this morning in the Bay Area.
* And there appear to be a few fanbois around for them. I saw this in the greater LA area on Monday:
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mtndrew1
Active Member
There were a couple of comments about Toyota's Fuel Cell efforts up thread. Thought I'd chime in with some data points.
* I know one fellow who has (had now?) a leased Mirai. Last I heard he was trying to break the lease.
* Was at the Steven's Creek Toyota dealership a week or two ago to get our Prius checked out prior to giving it to a relation. The guys at the service desks mentioned the dealership was losing money on every Mirai they sold. They didn't seem very enthusiastic. It didn't seem to help when I tried to console them by opining that fuel cell cars were likely DOA.
* However, I do very occasionally see them around. Saw one this morning in the Bay Area.
* And there appear to be a few fanbois around for them. I saw this in the greater LA area on Monday:
View attachment 436290
The resale value on these things is rough.
Pezpunk
Active Member
Jesus that might be ugliest front I’ve ever seen on a production car.
Why would anyone in their right mind buy it when hydrogen fill-up cost more than gasoline?
mtndrew1
Active Member
I believe that would partially explain the 78% depreciation on a three year old Toyota ;-)
The styling and performance probably don’t help either.
Those design are called “We have to make it but don’t really want you to buy it”.
Similar logic as someone naming their EV as “xxx ED”.
There were a couple of comments about Toyota's Fuel Cell efforts up thread. Thought I'd chime in with some data points.
* I know one fellow who has (had now?) a leased Mirai. Last I heard he was trying to break the lease.
* Was at the Steven's Creek Toyota dealership a week or two ago to get our Prius checked out prior to giving it to a relation. The guys at the service desks mentioned the dealership was losing money on every Mirai they sold. They didn't seem very enthusiastic. It didn't seem to help when I tried to console them by opining that fuel cell cars were likely DOA.
* However, I do very occasionally see them around. Saw one this morning in the Bay Area.
* And there appear to be a few fanbois around for them. I saw this in the greater LA area on Monday:
View attachment 436290
The cost of ownership is really low. In the mid 200 dollars a month for a 3 year lease that includes free fuel. The looks are polarizing but the car is well built (just a very traditional car design)
It is no Tesla but it is quite cheap for a decent quality car.
Unless there’s a hydrogen shortage in your area or a complete cutoff due to, say, a hydrogen station explosion
Unless there’s a hydrogen shortage in your area or a complete cutoff due to, say, a hydrogen station explosion
Yeah, that's fair. Toyota (who doesn't even own any of the hydrogen infrastructure) tows people for free if they ever run out of fuel and they've provided people with months of free rentals due to the shortage.
I wish Toyota leaned into BEVs versus FCEVs. They are a quality manufacturer but they seem to have hitched their wagon on the wrong horse. (Maybe to protect their hybrids)
I think that hydrogen is a dead technology for consumer vehicles. I can see it being a decent storage of electricity or for things with fixed routes like trains or semi transport with fueling infrastructure on both ends. People say that hydrogen is inefficient since you have to spend a lot of energy to convert it into hydrogen (like using electrolysis) and to compress it, but say we produce a surplus of energy at a given point of time (too much wind or solar that can't be consumed during the day), the focus on efficiency is lessened as long as we can put the excess energy into something that is pretty energy dense and can be consumed later.
All the hate from the Mirai people seem to be due to Elon calling it a "Fool's Cell". I mean both are still better than an ICE, right?
RobStark
Well-Known Member
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