Tesla forced to open superchargers to unlock billions

[zoomer0056]

Biden's Electrify America can't compete with Tesla Super Chargers.

Aside: the one in your garage is not a wall charger. It's a Wall Connector because the charger is in the car. So why aren't they called Super Connectors?

 

[STS-134]

I'm agreeable to opening it up, but before Tesla does that they should include 3rd party chargers in their NAV. This way if a SC is congested a Tesla owner can visit a 3rd party charger. They should also sell the CCS adapter at a discounted rate to existing owners to allow them to access 3rd party charging.

Last time I checked (yesterday), the nav system had EVGo chargers on the map.

While none of us want to deal with waiting it's probably inevitable. I agree there should be some incentive such as an out of network charge and there should also be a push to add significantly more capacity, both Supercharger and other. It won't take long to hear of confrontations at Superchargers I bet! Some sort of an electronic queuing system would really help with that. Charging availability is probably the biggest advantage Tesla has over competitors. I keep hearing others are "fix'in" to add 1000's but haven't seen much evidence of actions yet.

If there's queuing, aside from during unusual events, you're doing it wrong. This should be managed with market rates and in supply and demand at any given moment, not with queuing.

Biden's Electrify America can't compete with Tesla Super Chargers.

Aside: the one in your garage is not a wall charger. It's a Wall Connector because the charger is in the car. So why aren't they called Super Connectors?

Because DC fast chargers bypass the OBC, and the charger is actually outside of the car. DC fast chargers, unlike level 2 EVSEs, are actually chargers.

A better question: why did they repurpose a term for a forced induction system driven by the engine's motion? "Turbocharger" (forced induction system driven by the engine's exhaust) wouldn't have been a very good term for it either...

 

[TomB985]

Aside: the one in your garage is not a wall charger. It's a Wall Connector because the charger is in the car. So why aren't they called Super Connectors?

DC fast chargers bypass the onboard charger completely. Superchargers are, in fact, chargers.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Biden's Electrify America can't compete with Tesla Super Chargers.

Aside: the one in your garage is not a wall charger. It's a Wall Connector because the charger is in the car. So why aren't they called Super Connectors?

EA began operations under Voldemort’s turn, actually.

 

[Dennisis]

If there's queuing, aside from during unusual events, you're doing it wrong. This should be managed with market rates and in supply and demand at any given moment, not with queuing.

SHOULD be, I agree but I've done the dance trying to get a charger while others whip around trying to dive in ahead - this will only get worse, at least for a while I'm sure. If a queue was somehow set up, where you could perhaps join when you arrive and then the charger wouldn't work without an electronic key, that could save a lot of grief. Or some other method that doesn't immediately come to mind...

 

[E90alex]

I’m conflicted. I see NACS as superior for a few reasons;

• Easier to use cable
• Smaller connector size
• More reliable disconnect (I had a CCS connector freeze to my Tesla adapter. Never had a supercharger cable freeze to my car)
• More reliable charging experience (no faulting 10 minutes into a charge)
• Better uptime (if you see 10 stations advertised, you will find 10 working charge stations)
• Better speeds (If we exclude ChargePoint 62.5kW stations, there aren’t that many 150kW+ stations)
• Better payment authorization process
• More locations
• Better coast to coast coverage

NACS is just the better design. CCS is regressive.

Is there a good post that explains the backstory with SAE and the beef they have with Tesla? It seems like SAE reinvented the wheel, and the wheel they came up with is square. Now they are insisting this square wheel is a superior design that warrants 7.5bn in government subsidies and all consumers should adopt this regressive, inferior technology. If it weren’t for Tesla, we wouldn’t even be talking about CCS.

Why didn’t Tesla open up NACS sooner? Why isn’t Tesla doing more to teach OEM engineers how to implement NACS? Why can’t OEM companies just offer every car with NACS or CCS and let consumers choose what they like?

I take issue with the US government pouring so much money into a regressive design, that is poorly implemented. It really makes me question governments involvement in picking protocols and standards. Am I thinking about this wrong?

J1772 was standardized in 2008, long before the Tesla connector was introduced with the Model S. CCS was agreed upon by a handful of major automakers in 2011 both in North America and Europe, again before Model S.

Tesla chose to make their connector proprietary in the beginning and didn’t make it a universal standard for everyone else to use so that’s why we’re where we are today. It’s more teslas own fault than everyone else. Tesla is the majority in the US, but there’s more EVs worldwide that use CCS than the Tesla connector (including Teslas in Europe).

 

[electracity]

Plus Tesla choose the wrong plug location. Its only in the back because the gas filler location is in the rear. So while established automakers did choose a clunky connector, the also understood the basic fact that people prefer to do precise parking maneuvers directly with their eyes and not on a screen.

So maybe Tesla plug should be standard, and Tesla move the plug location.

 

[threeputts]

I'd like to see new Tesla SC installs be half NACS and half CCS w/ longer cables, and include the CCS adapter with each car like the J1772 one is currently, or at least offer it at low cost. That way they can use the federal incentive funds and all the stalls would be usable for their cars.

 

[bobbyjae]

I disagree. Just charge a higher rate per kWr as well as time of day rate for non Tesla's.
FWIW BP just announced that they will be adding over 100k chargers within the next few years.
I wonder when Exxon Mobil will get their head out of their butts and do the same?

Sure it will cost more for non-Tesla users, but how often does the average EV driver go on long distance trips? The 2-3 times a year I go, I'd gladly pay more if I had the option of using the Supercharger network.

 

[STS-134]

I'd like to see new Tesla SC installs be half NACS and half CCS w/ longer cables, and include the CCS adapter with each car like the J1772 one is currently, or at least offer it at low cost. That way they can use the federal incentive funds and all the stalls would be usable for their cars.

The CCS adapter is already offered at low cost.

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla has perhaps the finest back-up camera. Huge screen plus white alignment lines makes backing up pretty intuitive and easy. Back till you tires hit the safety bumpers and you are set up perfect to plug in.

Best of all solutions would be for all vehicles to use the amazing and well located Tesla Superchargers. With the $Billons from the Feds, they could install thousands of more Superchargers. Initially equipment them with different adaptors or nozzles. The competitive independant charging schemes have failed miserably. The Tesla Superchargers are simple plug in and walk away simple. No cards to swipe, no codes to key in, no monthly charges and prices vary due to the costs of electricity in different locals or times of use. All perfectly displayed on the dash or smart phone.

Long term all charging vehicles and chargers would accept a single universal plug in system, controlled by an app on your phone and linked to a credit/debit card on file.

 

[Ogre]

Nope. I can think of nothing better to incentivize EV ownership than fixing the proprietary charging problem.

They fixed it already. Tesla released their plug as a standard. EV makers just need to start using it.

Tesla adopting a crappy standard doesn’t make any sense save from a political perspective.

 

[E90alex]

They fixed it already. Tesla released their plug as a standard. EV makers just need to start using it.

Tesla adopting a crappy standard doesn’t make any sense save from a political perspective.

They should have done it 15 years ago when they were developing it, but they were too selfish. Now it’s too late. On a global scale the Tesla plug is in the minority of EVs and the odd man out.

 

[ucmndd]

They fixed it already. Tesla released their plug as a standard. EV makers just need to start using it.

A “standard” unilaterally controlled by a single highly unpredictable company is not a standard.

 

[Electroman]

I’m in favor of opening up Tesla superchargers, as we need to standardize the EV Industry. It would be great if all manufacturers adopted Tesla's connector now that it’s available.

At the same time, this may lead to congestion at Tesla chargers. If I had a non-Tesla car, with the unreliability of 3rd party charging, I know I’d always go to Tesla. Hopefully 3rd party chargers will improve.

Tesla connectors have always been open to other manufacturers from day one. In fact, there is a tweet from a few years ago from Elon Musk about this that he laments there are no takers. It is the idiocy and stupidity and pride from the legacy auto makers that made them disregard Tesla connectors. They thought they can stick it to Tesla by ignoring Tesla’s connectors.

 

[Ogre]

They should have done it 15 years ago when they were developing it, but they were too selfish. Now it’s too late. On a global scale the Tesla plug is in the minority of EVs and the odd man out.

There is no “Global” standard, CCS adaptors in EU are not the same as in the US even. “Standards” are regionalized and since cars are land bound, there is no need for US Vehicles to conform to the European or Asian standard.

In North America, most EVs by quantity use Tesla’s adaptor. Similarly, most chargers in North America use the NACS adaptor. Until we get that land-bridge to Europe working, that is all that matters.

 

[Ogre]

A “standard” unilaterally controlled by a single highly unpredictable company is not a standard.

Yet much of the technology industry is run this way. Tons of fundamental building blocks of the tech world are actually patented and controlled by a few individual companies. Wifi, LTE, many of the streaming and media “Standards” were all created by single entities who license the technology to others.

Works out this way because much like the crappy CCS connector, industry consortiums suck at creating standards.

 

[E90alex]

There is no “Global” standard, CCS adaptors in EU are not the same as in the US even. “Standards” are regionalized and since cars are land bound, there is no need for US Vehicles to conform to the European or Asian standard.

In North America, most EVs by quantity use Tesla’s adaptor. Similarly, most chargers in North America use the NACS adaptor. Until we get that land-bridge to Europe working, that is all that matters.

CCS was created in collaboration between North American and European standards bodies. The DC portion of CCS1 and CCS2 are the same. The only reason the upper part is different is because Europe has three phase AC power whereas North America is single phase.

 

[Electroman]

They should have done it 15 years ago when they were developing it, but they were too selfish. Now it’s too late. On a global scale the Tesla plug is in the minority of EVs and the odd man out.

I m just tired of correcting people posting false information. This thread resembles main stream media.

Tesla connectors were always open and available for any manufacturer to implement. No takers.

 

[E90alex]

Tesla connectors have always been open to other manufacturers from day one. In fact, there is a tweet from a few years ago from Elon Musk about this that he laments there are no takers. It is the idiocy and stupidity and pride from the legacy auto makers that made them disregard Tesla connectors. They thought they can stick it to Tesla by ignoring Tesla’s connectors.

If they were open all along then why did they just announce the creation of NACS?

Elon is the master of smoke and mirrors. Yes they did invite anyone to use their patents in the past, but in doing so the fine print said they must also allow Tesla and others to use their patents in exchange without repercussion, amongst other stipulations.

That’s not providing a standard. A standard is free to use no strings attached. Teslas “open patents” are nothing more than lip service to say something that sounds good to the public on a surface level.