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Tesla hurt their own profits by putting wimpy chargers in 3's.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by timk225, Aug 5, 2017.

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  1. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    I knew everything in my mid twenties. By thirty I knew much less.
     
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  2. az erik

    az erik Member

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    I second the 14-50 being more than enough, all I want is to possibly feed at 42a if whatever article I read was correct on that (with the 60a breaker) which is more than enough for me to charge for the 6-8 hour window I have nightly carved out in my EV pricing (Thanks SRP for that!)
     
  3. az erik

    az erik Member

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    I have heard one that's getting more than boring (Not to do with the Boring Co) "Panel gap! GASP!! Freak out! OMG!!"
    Has Tim given TSLA a solution for that yet? I was hoping it was solved before I get my 3...
    (I'm a lurker not a noob lol)
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

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    Sorry -- typo corrected
     
  5. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Let's just say your "accomplishments" pale compared to some on this board. Heck, they're nothing compared to at least two people participating in this thread (not me).
     
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  6. bonnie

    bonnie I play a nice person on twitter.

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    You know we can all see what you type, right? We're not eavesdropping if we respond to a post.
     
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  7. timk225

    timk225 Active Member

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    Well I am sure I'll have done much more after 30 years. Can't expect equal results in a fraction of the time, not realistic.

    Besides, as much as I like IT work, this whole job thing is only until I hit the lottery.:cool:
     
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  8. Lasttoy

    Lasttoy Active Member

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    Yea, he does not own one, easy to see he does not understand charging
     
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  9. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    #69 MXWing, Aug 5, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
    Tesla is not "punishing" you. Tesla has to answer to shareholders on the impact of their decisions. Shareholders don't look at minutiae like what charger Tesla decides to put in which version of the Model 3. They just have to trust that the right decisions are being made for the success of the vehicle, company and shareholders.

    Every person needs to analyze their usage patterns, accessibility to chargers, number of vehicles in the household and go through a decision matrix like

    1 - Is the Model 3 my only car?
    2 - What is my daily commute?
    3 - What is the distance to conceivable locations like hospitals, parents house, workplace, etc assuming I need to visit them on top of my anticipated driving habits?

    Lastly, "is the Model 3 standard range car and all of its limitations suitable for me and my budget?". How you answer for yourself, you cannot project them to others.

    Regarding IT, I appreciate your transparency and can share my level of expertise say over PM if you would be interested but as a summary:

    * I could take you on a junior networking engineer on my team. Not a slight, but that is where your experience would place you.
    * To be a rockstar in your field, you are going to need to go all the way up to CCIE and then develop a strong foundation in software defined networking as traditional rack/stack networking is going obsolete (much like ICE cars)

    While I would architect and manage the engineers that run your data center, I could not even begin to question Tesla's decision making process on how they decide to put what equipment into which car.

    I don't work in electrical engineering, I don't work in automotive assembly, and I don't work in sourcing. I don't work in any area that would qualify me to "know it all and have all the answers". Even though its an online forum, I still have too much pride to come across as a fool to anyone. I'll guesstimate myself at the bottom end achievement wise of everyone else here. True or not, it's better to think that way.

    You should be humble and would get more respect and get better answers if you made posts like:

    "Disappointed that Tesla is only including 32AMP charges in the standard range Model 3. Anyone have insight on why?"

    An answer such as "The part cost 20 cents. However - Tesla wants to direct more sales to the long range Model 3". - would have been perfectly acceptable to me as a shareholder. I can see the business argument even if I dealt with some frustration as an end consumer.
     
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  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    Agreed. For modest commutes it's far from useless.

    In the past, when my work had limited L2 charging stations and quite a few users, I would intentionally only charge at (the few) 120 volts outlets we had, to make way for others. Despite me almost never charging at home, it was more than enough. My commute's about 12 to 13 miles each way.

    If one has 70+ mile daily commutes on a say Leaf and returns home w/an empty battery, then yeah, 120 volt charging at home only is insufficient to replenish the juice used during the day before it's time to leave again.

    I ran into a similar situation in terms of cost when I qualified for a "free" L2 EVSE and basic installation via a program that's LONG gone (How To Apply : EV Solutions). Toyota Rav4 EV Forum • View topic - Free charging station form EV Soltutions was the outcome. That $ to trench and run another cable would NOT covered.
     
  11. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm lessee here....onboard chargers:

    Ford C-Max: 3.3KW
    Mitsubishi iMIEV: 3.3KW
    Toyota Prius: 3.3KW
    BMW i8: 3.3KW
    Chevy Volt: 3.6KW
    Nissan Leaf: 6.6KW
    Hyundai Ioniq: 6.6KW
    Smart EV: 7.0KW
    VW e-Golf: 7.2KW
    BMW i3: 7.7KW
    Chevy Bolt: 7.7KW
    Tesla Model 3: 7.7KW
    Tesla Model 3-LR: 11.5KW
    Tesla Model S(new): 11.5-17.2KW
    Tesla Model S(original): 10-20KW

    Um.. yeah. There's not a single EV/Hybrid out there I'm aware of that beats the Model 3 charging options...except a Tesla Model S or X.

    Pwnd? Hyperbole much?
     
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  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    On the 2012 to 2015 Prius Plug-in, at least on our 208 volt L2 EVSEs at work, they seem to pull only ~2.1 kW from the "wall".

    '17 Leaf base S still only has 3.x kW OBC. 6.x kW OBC is part of a package on the S and standard on SV and SL trims. This was true on '13 to '17 model years. '11 and '12 Leaf had a "3.3 kW" OBC (up to 3.8 kW max fro the wall).

    e-Golf SE (cheaper trim Volkswagen Announces Addition Of Cheaper $29,815, Entry-Level e-Golf For 2016) has only 3.6 kW OBC. The e-Golf is all Golf. No gas tank. VW does electric. seems to confirm it.

    Mercedes B-Class ED (Tesla powered) has a 10 kW OBC but it's being discontinued. Gen 2 Rav4 EV (also Tesla-powered) was this way, as well, but it was discontinued after 2014 model year after ~2600 were built.
     
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  13. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    Doesn't the type of onboard charger affect the charge rate at destination chargers? As I recall they are up to 80 amp. I had to use a destination charger earlier this summer and I was glad I had the 72 amp option on my MX.
     
  14. Darryl

    Darryl ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm

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    The chargers are big enough to charge their cars overnight. What else to you need? These chargers have nothing to do with Supercharger speeds.
     
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  15. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    A tesla wall connector can be configured for 80 amp all the way down to 12 amps. It takes a 90/100amp breaker to do 72/80amp charging so it takes a beefy site to provide that to you. Can't see 72 amp destination chargers being all that common due to some homes having only 100amp service in total.

    With how much more you paid for the Model X, it makes sense for it to have all the bells and whistles.

    Any other PHEV or BEV assumes overnight charging and not intraday pit stops to exceed the battery round trip for the majority use cases.
     
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  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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    Yep.

    EV-lution can take a look at pages 20 and 21 of https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/wall-connector-eu/wall_connector_installation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf?201612081439 from Installation Manuals - Wall Connector. Older (high power) wall connectors had DIP switches to set the max output instead of a dial.

    BTW, some of scaesare's numbers are off by a bit, but they're all close enough and usually within 0.5 to 1.0 kW. I was surprised to see the Smart ForTwo ED having 7.x kW OBC, but 2017 electric drive smart car | smart USA confirms it for gen 2. I'm pretty sure the gen 1 was only 3.3 kW.
     
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  17. aronth5

    aronth5 Long Time Follower

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    My question for the OP is if the vast majority of forum replies disagree with your initial premise why would you expect Tesla to think differently? And have you been surprised by the forum response?
     
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  18. The_Mike

    The_Mike Member

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    16,000 miles in one year with my S60D, 75 mile-per-day commute. We charge with NEMA 247 V @ 29 Amps and have never had a problem reaching whatever desired state of charge we want. Heck, most of the time we only charge every other day because we also have a Leaf.

    Why waste the money on the Tesla-branded HPWC?
     
  19. MXWing

    MXWing Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you weren't doing a Nema outlet what's a cheaper EVSE than the Tesla wall connector that can do 72 amps plus load sharing capabilities?
     
  20. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    I think you're confused about the term "destination charger". Tesla's destination charging program supplies HPWCs to destinations free of charge-- mostly hotels, also other tourist destinations such as wineries, restaurants, parks, etc. In those situations the HPWC is called a "destination charger". When a HPWC is installed at home it's just a HPWC, not a destination charger.

    Someone with only 100A service at home isn't likely to install any HPWC, regardless of amps, but fortunately that isn't common. Hotels, etc. installing destination charging often do install at 72A, or at least 48A, depending on their available electrical supply.
     
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