Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible

[atokosch]

Please keep us updated. I’ve had 12V issues similar to you but the underlying cause was said to be missing CAN messages which caused the DC converter to disconnect and kill the 12V. I asked if it could be software related and they seemed to think no.

Thankfully I know CAN! But to me that doesn't sound good....
Missing CAN messages, meaning, like the DC/DC converter stopped receiving messages from MCU/(whatever system communicates with it, assuming is it MCU though), or the MCU isn't actually sending the message? Which end was the issue, if you know? - Hopefully it is software, I am very eager to get my 3 back.

Have you had any issues after the initial one? I really hope this is not an on going thing....
Did they update you to a different software afterwards?

 

[atokosch]

I was upgraded to 18.4.8 on February 19th. It should’ve been fixed. If you’d like to have your SC contact my SC to compare notes, feel free to PM me.

Thanks for the info. I am assuming that 4.9 came out after that and you were at least on 4.9 for sometime, if you still are not?
I may take you up on the offer about my SC contacting yours if they can't seem to figure it out on Monday.

 

[outdoors]

Only cases I've read are your that eould open when 12V was present and the other which wouldn't when the 12V was dead.
@outdoors fancy testing out your tow hook cover?

I think it is a temperamental tow hook cover from what I recall reading. Something how it breaks or something. I think I will leave it be. As you know @mongo my electrical skills aren't really up to par. 9V...... The only thing I remember is smoke detectors, and licking them and getting shocked as a kid.

 

[atokosch]

I think it is a temperamental tow hook cover from what I recall reading. Something how it breaks or something. I think I will leave it be. As you know @mongo my electrical skills aren't really up to par. 9V...... The only thing I remember is smoke detectors, and licking them and getting shocked as a kid.

It does not break. I was instructed by Tesla roadside assist that I needed to push it in and it would become lose so that I would pull it out. I was really confused as to why, but tried to follow directions, this actually did not work (no surprise honestly) and after that I ended up pulling out 2 credit cards from my wallet and try to use the non magnetic sides pry it out of the hole, thankfully this worked! If I had my phone/computer repair tools (which was stuck in my car...) I would have used a nylon spludger... But thankfully I got the car opened by jumping the 12V battery and jumping the latch for the frunk.
I tried to put the cover back on but with my frustration that my 6 day old car had the battery die, I just closed it up the best I could and left in an Uber (paid for by Tesla) to go pick up a loaner so I didn't have to wait for tow services.. When I got to the service center I told them that the cover was not fully in place and the technician said that was fine and they would take care of it.

Based on this, it doesn't seem like you break the cover when you open it, if I was not so frustrated I would have taken the time to pop it back into place. Also, looking inside the cover, there is also NO way you can push it in, you need to physically pry it out with some plastic so that you do not ruin your bumper.

 

[mongo]

It does not break. I was instructed by Tesla roadside assist that I needed to push it in and it would become lose so that I would pull it out. I was really confused as to why, but tried to follow directions, this actually did not work (no surprise honestly) and after that I ended up pulling out 2 credit cards from my wallet and try to use the non magnetic sides pry it out of the hole, thankfully this worked! If I had my phone/computer repair tools (which was stuck in my car...) I would have used a nylon spludger... But thankfully I got the car opened by jumping the 12V battery and jumping the latch for the frunk.
I tried to put the cover back on but with my frustration that my 6 day old car had the battery die, I just closed it up the best I could and left in an Uber (paid for by Tesla) to go pick up a loaner so I didn't have to wait for tow services.. When I got to the service center I told them that the cover was not fully in place and the technician said that was fine and they would take care of it.

Based on this, it doesn't seem like you break the cover when you open it, if I was not so frustrated I would have taken the time to pop it back into place. Also, looking inside the cover, there is also NO way you can push it in, you need to physically pry it out with some plastic so that you do not ruin your bumper.

So your 12V was dead and the latch release terminals worked?
@MarkS22 That would be data point #3.

@outdoors I wouldn't try it in the name of science either.

 

[outdoors]

It does not break. I was instructed by Tesla roadside assist that I needed to push it in and it would become lose so that I would pull it out. I was really confused as to why, but tried to follow directions, this actually did not work (no surprise honestly) and after that I ended up pulling out 2 credit cards from my wallet and try to use the non magnetic sides pry it out of the hole, thankfully this worked! If I had my phone/computer repair tools (which was stuck in my car...) I would have used a nylon spludger... But thankfully I got the car opened by jumping the 12V battery and jumping the latch for the frunk.
I tried to put the cover back on but with my frustration that my 6 day old car had the battery die, I just closed it up the best I could and left in an Uber (paid for by Tesla) to go pick up a loaner so I didn't have to wait for tow services.. When I got to the service center I told them that the cover was not fully in place and the technician said that was fine and they would take care of it.

Based on this, it doesn't seem like you break the cover when you open it, if I was not so frustrated I would have taken the time to pop it back into place. Also, looking inside the cover, there is also NO way you can push it in, you need to physically pry it out with some plastic so that you do not ruin your bumper.

Yeah. Exactly. Don't want to mess with it. Bumper sitting pretty with it's Xpel all nice. I would bugger it up. Wife would be saying. What are you doing? I would say exploring. Someone else is welcome to.

 

[atokosch]

So your 12V was dead and the latch release terminals worked?
@MarkS22 That would be data point #3.

@outdoors I wouldn't try it in the name of science either.

Correct. One of the guys I work with attached the leads from the battery jumper and it didn't open at first and then I double checked them and one wasn't touching the metal connection, so I fixed it, it sparked and didn't do anything... Then I disconnected it and tried again and it finally worked after about 5 seconds.. So I think you may need to wait a few seconds before it actually unlatches. If it doesn't work, then I recommend repositioning the leads.

What do you mean, data point #3?

 

[mongo]

What do you mean, data point #3?

Thanks for the follow up. We've only heard of 3 attempts to access the frunk so far, including yours.

 

[atokosch]

Yeah. Exactly. Don't want to mess with it. Bumper sitting pretty with it's Xpel all nice. I would bugger it up. Wife would be saying. What are you doing? I would say exploring. Someone else is welcome to.

I physically needed to get my bag out of my car so that I could get my computer etc so that I had my stuff for my classes.... Tesla service said they weren't sure what would happen if I jumped the car, they actually said they recommend against it but understood that I needed my things, but they knew I could get into the frunk using the wires in the tow hook area.
I knew jumping the car would be fine and wouldn't harm anything. If the battery was dead then it would just be running off the jumper battery essentially and also charging it too. This is exactly what happened. I was able to open the car, the screen came on, but then it told me that I needed to service the battery soon and it was saying the car may not drive (hence, there was not enough juice to engage the high voltage relays for the battery pack and keep them engaged) and it also told me that the parking brake was having issues, assumed it was bc of the low battery (hopefully not an actual issue with the drive unit).

 

[ölbrenner]

...the manual does actually say this is NOT meant to happen if 12V power is present.

The latest version of the manual (3/21/2018), has removed the wording that the emergency frunk release only works if no 12V power is present.

So they fixed the wording instead of the problem lol.

 

[atokosch]

Thanks for the follow up. We've only heard of 3 attempts to access the frunk so far, including yours.

Ahh okay, I see.
And no problem.

I do see this as being a solution, but more like a bandaid that they could have honestly fixed by redesigning the high voltage system a little bit. In case of a 12V battery failure or something alike, they should have also connected the high voltage relays to the battery pack for emergency usage, there would need to be a controller and DC/DC converter to step down the voltage to 12V for the relays and other essential systems, this would have honestly been the proper fix, then the high voltage battery could supply power to the car for a temporary amount of time such that the 12V battery is out of the mix. Then the car can be drive to a service center or at least out of a parking garage to be towed easily (my case), and it would also allow for the parking brake to be released so that it can properly be put onto a truck.

I think this is what Elon was talking about when he said they had a new architecture for the Model Y that didn't use the 12V battery, but later said they decided against it bc it would mean the car was farther out from production. I know this idea is a very difficult to properly do, but it IS possible! I looked into doing it for the FSAE car that my team and I are building (currently a senior electrical engineering student), but FSAE doesn't let you do that.

 

[atokosch]

The latest version of the manual (3/21/2018), has removed the wording that the emergency frunk release only works if no 12V power is present.

So they fixed the wording instead of the problem lol.

How would that work if the car was in an accident and the 12V is still powered on? I thought the main purpose of this was so that emergency responders could open the frunk and then cut the 12V power line to the battery/relays?
The reason I used it is technically not the correct use, at least, that it what I thought...?

 

[insaneoctane]

The latest version of the manual (3/21/2018), has removed the wording that the emergency frunk release only works if no 12V power is present.

So they fixed the wording instead of the problem lol.

Honestly, I was hoping that they would not take that approach. Sure seems like the mechanical pull would be preferable to 12V that always works...12V that only works when the main 12V is too low was a clever solution... Too bad they missed

 

[ölbrenner]

How would that work if the car was in an accident and the 12V is still powered on? I thought the main purpose of this was so that emergency responders could open the frunk and then cut the 12V power line to the battery/relays?
The reason I used it is technically not the correct use, at least, that it what I thought...?

Current behavior is the emergency frunk release works with or without 12V power. So it could/would work in an accident regardless. But we all know they would not use this method to gain access anyway.

 

[ölbrenner]

Honestly, I was hoping that they would not take that approach. Sure seems like the mechanical pull would be preferable to 12V that always works...12V that only works when the main 12V is too low was a clever solution... Too bad they missed

Not sure I follow. Both a mechanical pull, and the current emergency frunk release behavior, act exactly the same right now. They both don't care if the 12V is dead or alive.

 

[DrLegoHair]

Thankfully I know CAN! But to me that doesn't sound good....
Missing CAN messages, meaning, like the DC/DC converter stopped receiving messages from MCU/(whatever system communicates with it, assuming is it MCU though), or the MCU isn't actually sending the message? Which end was the issue, if you know? - Hopefully it is software, I am very eager to get my 3 back.

Have you had any issues after the initial one? I really hope this is not an on going thing....
Did they update you to a different software afterwards?

I’ve only had the car back for a few days but so far so good.

Their conclusion was that most likely a wiring harness connection was loose. They reseated all the relevant connections and it’s been okay so far.

 

[MikeBur]

The latest version of the manual (3/21/2018), has removed the wording that the emergency frunk release only works if no 12V power is present.

So they fixed the wording instead of the problem lol.

Appears bug with the manual has now been corrected. Now working irrespective of the state of 12V is by design. Shame I can’t disagree with @MP3Mike’s disagree - lol...

 

[mongo]

Appears bug with the manual has now been corrected. Now working irrespective of the state of 12V is by design. Shame I can’t disagree with @MP3Mike’s disagree - lol...

Glad I included the date of the manual I quoted.

 

[ölbrenner]

Shame I can’t disagree with @MP3Mike’s disagree - lol...

Yea I've had some disagree's with no counterpoint provided, and even when I called them on it...crickets. Turned out what they disagreed with turned out to be true. Nothing you can do.

 

[MarkS22]

Thanks for the info. I am assuming that 4.9 came out after that and you were at least on 4.9 for sometime, if you still are not?
I may take you up on the offer about my SC contacting yours if they can't seem to figure it out on Monday.

Yeah, if we had the same issue, your firmware should definitely be high enough. It’s possible you have a completely different problem with the same symptom. Good luck!