Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible

[ChrisH]

Price of the car dose not impact statistics, early part failure is a real thing. With 100k 3's built, a 0.1% failure rate is still 100 cars and counting. If there were only 400 (made up) components per inverter, the individual component failure rate must be 0.00025% (2.5 part per million) to achieve a 0.1% module failure rate. (the AP micro alone is 300 + solder joints). Only way around early failures is to test each car/ component for 1k miles (or time/ cycle equivalent) and then deliver them.

I guess we will see. I know TMC is a strong community but I’ve read about this happening to at least a dozen people. What about those who don’t post here? Yes there are 80,000+ model 3s out there now but how long until this happens to more and more of them?

What percent of model S’ did this impact?

Also, what is considered “early failure rate?”

 

[mongo]

I guess we will see. I know TMC is a strong community but I’ve read about this happening to at least a dozen people. What about those who don’t post here? Yes there are 80,000+ model 3s out there now but how long until this happens to more and more of them?

What percent of model S’ did this impact?

Also, what is considered “early failure rate?”

If you mean the S drive units, those had a few design and manufacturing issues so all older revisions were replaced for the most part. The contactors also went through a round or two of improvements.

The 3 has not had much in the way of hardware design issues. What is occurring is sub-component level failures. Part of the failure rate is that the system self monitors so much that it can detect issues that a driver might not.

Regarding the failure rates, check out bathtub curve articles, especially infant mortality:
The Bathtub Curve and Product Failure Behavior (Part 1 of 2)
Bathtub curve - Wikipedia

 

[ChrisH]

If you mean the S drive units, those had a few design and manufacturing issues so all older revisions were replaced for the most part. The contactors also went through a round or two of improvements.

The 3 has not had much in the way of hardware design issues. What is occurring is sub-component level failures. Part of the failure rate is that the system self monitors so much that it can detect issues that a driver might not.

Regarding the failure rates, check out bathtub curve articles, especially infant mortality:
The Bathtub Curve and Product Failure Behavior (Part 1 of 2)
Bathtub curve - Wikipedia

So how long until one is out of the “early failure rate” zone?

 

[Dr. J]

I’ve read about this happening to at least a dozen people.

I think you are drawing inferences from a biased and extremely small sample size.

Say you had 5,000 Tesla vehicle owners who frequent (many as lurkers) TMC out of say, 100,000 total population of Tesla owners. If 20 different people report a specific failure on TMC, is the failure rate on Tesla vehicles more than, less than or about 0.4% (20/5000)? We don't know because: more people (of the 5,000 TMC users) may have failures than reported them; and the "sample" (the TMC users, out of the total population) may not be representative. Compounding these problems, I don't know how many Tesla owners are on TMC, nor how many total Tesla owners there are in the world. So I certainly couldn't draw any valid inferences from the data provided.

It sounds like a problem, yes, but the size of it is hard to discern.

 

[Relayer]

Just to follow up, they did offer a rental from Enterprise (boo!) and said they were replacing the battery/battery harness cable? Don't quote me on that part. Car should be ready in a day or two.

I'm hoping that's it. I've read elsewhere about more needing to be replaced in these scenarios.
If it still isn't fixed by Fri morning, gonna have to take them up on the ICE loaner (boo!)

 

[ChrisH]

Just to follow up, they did offer a rental from Enterprise (boo!) and said they were replacing the battery/battery harness cable? Don't quote me on that part. Car should be ready in a day or two.

I'm hoping that's it. I've read elsewhere about more needing to be replaced in these scenarios.
If it still isn't fixed by Fri morning, gonna have to take them up on the ICE loaner (boo!)

Thanks for the update. It’s been either the drive unit, 12v battery, or a connection to the battery on almost all of these stories. It’s too bad that just a loose connection on a brand new car can strand someone.

 

[ElecKY]

I guess we will see. I know TMC is a strong community but I’ve read about this happening to at least a dozen people. What about those who don’t post here? Yes there are 80,000+ model 3s out there now but ho

I don’t w long until this happens to more and more of them?

What percent of model S’ did this impact?

Also, what is considered “early failure rate?”

I guess we will see. I know TMC is a strong community but I’ve read about this happening to at least a dozen people. What about those who don’t post here? Yes there are 80,000+ model 3s out there now but how long until this happens to more and more of them?

What percent of model S’ did this impact?

Also, what is considered “early failure rate?”

I would say I had an early failure rate. I picked up my model 3 Friday and charged it at home Friday night. Midway through the night I get a notification on my app that the charging was interrupted. Then I get two more notifications about service and powering down. I try to put it in tow mode but to no avail. The dash also made a strange humming sound while all this was going on. I had to use the manual charger release in the trunk and it took two different tow trucks to get the car out of my garage due to the narrowness of the driveway, angle. Etc. to make matters worse the car completely went dark before it could be loaded on a flatbed. I had to sit in the drivers seat while the wench towed it up the slope of the flatbed while the rear tires were drug from behind. The Tesla tech said there was not enough juice in the 12v battery to put it in tow mode despite having jump started the battery to get the doors open. That was Saturday and now 4 days later still have no answers. I waited 2 years to drive a car for 6 hours only to have it completely fail. Pretty disturbing. Glad it was in my garage and not on the road somewhere. Roadside assistance was excellent but the service center has not been as responsive. After 3 days had to call today only to learn that it is just now being looked at.

 

[ChrisH]

I would say I had an early failure rate. I picked up my model 3 Friday and charged it at home Friday night. Midway through the night I get a notification on my app that the charging was interrupted. Then I get two more notifications about service and powering down. I try to put it in tow mode but to no avail. The dash also made a strange humming sound while all this was going on. I had to use the manual charger release in the trunk and it took two different tow trucks to get the car out of my garage due to the narrowness of the driveway, angle. Etc. to make matters worse the car completely went dark before it could be loaded on a flatbed. I had to sit in the drivers seat while the wench towed it up the slope of the flatbed while the rear tires were drug from behind. The Tesla tech said there was not enough juice in the 12v battery to put it in tow mode despite having jump started the battery to get the doors open. That was Saturday and now 4 days later still have no answers. I waited 2 years to drive a car for 6 hours only to have it completely fail. Pretty disturbing. Glad it was in my garage and not on the road somewhere. Roadside assistance was excellent but the service center has not been as responsive. After 3 days had to call today only to learn that it is just now being looked at.

That very much is an early failure. Sorry to hear. Keep us posted on what they say the issue is!

 

[Relayer]

I would say I had an early failure rate. I picked up my model 3 Friday and charged it at home Friday night. Midway through the night I get a notification on my app that the charging was interrupted. Then I get two more notifications about service and powering down. I try to put it in tow mode but to no avail. The dash also made a strange humming sound while all this was going on. I had to use the manual charger release in the trunk and it took two different tow trucks to get the car out of my garage due to the narrowness of the driveway, angle. Etc. to make matters worse the car completely went dark before it could be loaded on a flatbed. I had to sit in the drivers seat while the wench towed it up the slope of the flatbed while the rear tires were drug from behind. The Tesla tech said there was not enough juice in the 12v battery to put it in tow mode despite having jump started the battery to get the doors open. That was Saturday and now 4 days later still have no answers. I waited 2 years to drive a car for 6 hours only to have it completely fail. Pretty disturbing. Glad it was in my garage and not on the road somewhere. Roadside assistance was excellent but the service center has not been as responsive. After 3 days had to call today only to learn that it is just now being looked at.

Sounds similar what happened to mine - with the exception that I had enough 12v juice to put it into tow mode.
I got at least 1000mi in before it happened. However - that might've just lead to a false sense of security. I was far from home, but so glad to be in a safe location.
I was in Dover Delaware (very rural area) and the service hotline rep said a few tow drivers simply hung up on him. There's an element of responders really scared of getting electrocuted. Once I showed him how accessible the little battery was he was a little better about it.

Another thing I discovered was that it is NOT entirely clear when you put it into "Tow Mode". The on-screen button remains blue, and if you click it again it gets greyed out. You want it to be blue. Tow operator started pulling the cart and we saw the back tires weren't moving. Luckily it was on grass - we both spotted it, and I was in the car and able to switch back and get confirmation from the rep about the status.

Good luck ElecKY.
My car is in service since yesterday afternoon. Parts arrived and work has begun. I have been checking in on the phone app - and could see when they were working on it in the shop, when the doors are open, etc. Even with the nightmare of this situation, it's still the coolest car out there. I really hope they diagnosed and fixed this correctly. As of now I'm little skeptical.

 

[ChrisH]

Sounds similar what happened to mine - with the exception that I had enough 12v juice to put it into tow mode.
I got at least 1000mi in before it happened. However - that might've just lead to a false sense of security. I was far from home, but so glad to be in a safe location.
I was in Dover Delaware (very rural area) and the service hotline rep said a few tow drivers simply hung up on him. There's an element of responders really scared of getting electrocuted. Once I showed him how accessible the little battery was he was a little better about it.

Another thing I discovered was that it is NOT entirely clear when you put it into "Tow Mode". The on-screen button remains blue, and if you click it again it gets greyed out. You want it to be blue. Tow operator started pulling the cart and we saw the back tires weren't moving. Luckily it was on grass - we both spotted it, and I was in the car and able to switch back and get confirmation from the rep about the status.

Good luck ElecKY.
My car is in service since yesterday afternoon. Parts arrived and work has begun. I have been checking in on the phone app - and could see when they were working on it in the shop, when the doors are open, etc. Even with the nightmare of this situation, it's still the coolest car out there. I really hope they diagnosed and fixed this correctly. As of now I'm little skeptical.

These are exactly the experiences that cannot be even minimally common. We need these cars to replace the Honda Civics that have been known to be super reliable. Spending twice as much and getting stranded is not going to instill confidence in a new group of customers.

 

[Relayer]

These are exactly the experiences that cannot be even minimally common. We need these cars to replace the Honda Civics that have been known to be super reliable. Spending twice as much and getting stranded is not going to instill confidence in a new group of customers.

Yup.. that's what happens when the factory work is rushed and the tech is new.
I still wanted it as soon as I could get it, but it sucks when you're the 1% (2%?) that got the issue.
I'm tempted to remotely honk the horn randomly until they fix it. Just kidding!

 

[Relayer]

Rep said the battery harness cable was replaced, and the car seems to be working - however they wanted to update the firmware on a component to ensure a bug didn't create the problem again, as well as upgrade to v9 software.
I think they needed to confer with engineering on the firmware update. I asked if it was something like the power control module that needed the update, and she said the work order does mention that.

My terminology/naming might be off, but it seems like the same thing others with the power error have been through, and I think they have had no problems when all these fixes were done. They did offer a loaner, and I could've had a model S if I went today, but couldn't get there before closing. If car isn't fixed tomorrow, I'm hoping that option is still there, otherwise I'm going to have to take what I can get.

 

[Relayer]

Update: Got the car back. High Voltage Controller was replaced. New firmware was added (I assume for the HVC). Also got the V9 software update.
Drove 40min home on the local highways. All seems well!

 

[ChrisH]

Update: Got the car back. High Voltage Controller was replaced. New firmware was added (I assume for the HVC). Also got the V9 software update.
Drove 40min home on the local highways. All seems well!

Thanks for letting us know. Now we’ve got HVC, drive unit, and 12V as culprits leaving people stranded lol. Ugh.

 

[131dom]

I have a model 3 on order in the UK.
I will be using it as a taxi. I cannot afford to have any reliability problems. I really hope Tesla can sort these issues out as at present I will be be cancelling my order and going with a Leaf. Leaf drive failures are virtually unheard off and the cars are extremely reliable. I cannot understand why Tesla is not using the same technology.

 

[JRP3]

Reliability is not the only factor. Tesla blows away the LEAF in all other aspects.

 

[ChrisH]

Reliability is not the only factor. Tesla blows away the LEAF in all other aspects.

Yes but “cool and fast” doesn’t matter when it doesn’t work.

 

[JRP3]

Yet many people buy less reliable "cool and fast" cars over many other more reliable cars all the time, and pay higher prices to do so. Hence my answer to the question posed by 131dom.

 

[TEG]

I have a model 3 on order in the UK.
I will be using it as a taxi. I cannot afford to have any reliability problems. I really hope Tesla can sort these issues out as at present I will be be cancelling my order and going with a Leaf. Leaf drive failures are virtually unheard off and the cars are extremely reliable. I cannot understand why Tesla is not using the same technology.

I have a LEAF (40K miles) and Model 3 (5K miles).
Neither have had any issues with drivetrain.
You see some people on this forum reporting problems, but many more have had no problems, so some luck involved there.

Even though the LEAF has been reliable, the battery degradation has been disappointing. Tesla does a much better job keeping the battery happy.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Price of the car dose not impact statistics, early part failure is a real thing. With 100k 3's built, a 0.1% failure rate is still 100 cars and counting. If there were only 400 (made up) components per inverter, the individual component failure rate must be 0.00025% (2.5 part per million) to achieve a 0.1% module failure rate. (the AP micro alone is 300 + solder joints). Only way around early failures is to test each car/ component for 1k miles (or time/ cycle equivalent) and then deliver them.

For the record though, that kind of failure rate would be appalling today - I think we're a little beyond Jack Welch's 1980's standards of Six Sigma. You'd really want a failure rate of lower than 3 in 1 billion with today's cars.

Also not every component failure should cause catastrophic system failures.