Tesla Model 3 Down: Won't Power Up, and is Inaccessible

[dhanson865]

If the 12V system is powered up via external supply, shouldn't the car be able to switch on the high voltage system and move under its own power?

Yes, so long as you don't do something careless like let someone disconnect the cables and get out of the drivers seat and let it turn back off.

Worst case you could have 10FT+ jumper cables still attached while you drove it forward and then unplug them after you get it where you want it (assuming you just need to roll it out a bit).

You would have to disconnect the charging cable from the charge port before you could put it into gear but the center display should remind you of that.

 

[JRP3]

I totally agree a lithium 12v would be an improvement but it's totally out of the price range for the "cheapest Tesla ever".

Of course that wouldn't help if the issue is the DC/DC converter.

 

[scottm]

It has a DC-DC converter, instead. As long as the high voltage system is on, I would guess the DC-DC converter would keep the 12V system supplied with power, but I'm not sure.

The DC-DC keeps 12v systems alive once the contactors have closed (i.e. all the while you are driving). Model S owners have reported "12v needs service" type of errors popping up while driving... the car continues to operate fine. Until parked and turned off. Then the car won't go again. The 12v battery has gone bad.

So if you see that type of message, drive the car to where you want it parked for a while. Where service can be done, or in such a fashion that it is easier to get hooked up for a tow. (... Like don't parkade it.)

 

[dhanson865]

Yes, it just needs enough power to close the high-voltage connection. The problem is whether the 12v will retain enough power.

Since there’s no alternator, I’m curious if the 12v system can fail while driving or the 12v is powered off the main battery when it’s on?

The EV uses an inverter in place of an ICE using an alternator. So long as the car is on and derivable the inverter will be charging the 12v battery and covering any 12v loads.

 

[AlanSqB]

I’ll put twenty on bad ground. I’ve had more than one case of that over the years on different cars.

Thanks for sharing all the details. I’m glad to hear they’re taking it very seriously. They could have just fiddled with it in your driveway to try and make it work, but taking it back to do a full work up is the right thing to do.

 

[DFibRL8R]

I wouldn't call it "hard". There are a number of steps and you have to have a 12v power source available. (So hopefully your USB battery pack/12v booster isn't in the glovebox in the Model 3 when you need it. )

If you have a 12V power source available I would think the charge port lock should function again once 12V supply was applied to the Model 3's battery. Maybe there is some other power failure scenario (fuse?) that this release cable could be used for.

 

[TexasEV]

@MarkS22
You've done a hell of a job maintaining composure on explaining what "brick" means. The word has regrettably been co-opted by the first 1% of Tesla owners, but I think almost everyone else completely understood your literally-the-definition meaning.

No, the term “brick” was co-opted by the anti-Tesla media in describing something that happened to a few of the first 1% of Tesla owners( i.e., Roadster owners). That’s why it carries such a pejorative connotation. It’s automatic clickbait now.

 

[bonnie]

@MarkS22

You've done a hell of a job maintaining composure on explaining what "brick" means. The word has regrettably been co-opted by the first 1% of Tesla owners, but I think almost everyone else completely understood your literally-the-definition meaning. I like to add that a brick often requires very specialized (read: proprietary) repairs (i.e., JTAG) to return functionality. You know, like a Tesla

@TexasEV already corrected the misconception of where 'brick' came from. Or you can take up your argument of 'there is only one meaning!!!' with Consumer Reports. Or a whole host of other sources.

But really. 'Maintaining composure?? No one attacked, there was no reason to have to 'maintain composure', unless he was someone who easily took offense at a differing opinion. And clearly he is not that kind of person.

A large number of us come from a software/hardware engineering background. I'm sure you're well aware that a lot of terminology has a different connotation in different industries. It's not unusual. I ended up changing the name of the medical device validation team at Intel to 'design assurance', because they all had a preconceived idea of what 'validation' meant for software. It's different in the medical device field, even though both the chip group and the medical device group both called it 'validation'. The easiest way to get people to let go of a past definition was to just come up with a new name.

So let's move on. This whole discussion is way out of hand. There is history. You want to ignore it. Doesn't change the past and that's fine.

 

[gregincal]

The DC-DC keeps 12v systems alive once the contactors have closed (i.e. all the while you are driving). Model S owners have reported "12v needs service" type of errors popping up while driving... the car continues to operate fine. Until parked and turned off. Then the car won't go again. The 12v battery has gone bad.

So if you see that type of message, drive the car to where you want it parked for a while. Where service can be done, or in such a fashion that it is easier to get hooked up for a tow. (... Like don't parkade it.)

I've gotten that error a couple times now in my Model S, and the car operated normally for a week each time until I was able to get the 12v battery replaced. Complete 12v battery failures with no warning are a lot more rare.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@MarkS22

Massive thanks for the reports. Great reporting, cool analytical insight, great thread. A good example of a bad experience turning into a helpful, positive moment for all who can appreciate it.

I have only one complaint: I disapprove of your lack of transparency on the Sierra games you beta tested. You have to correct this: Which ones?

 

[Reciprocity]

It's now 11 pages and I have kids so.. Is it unbricked yet and was it the 12v. @MarkS22 you promised to message each and every one us directly if I recall correctly, which I probably don't. BTW, my shoes are still bricked and in the shop so I can feel your pain.

 

[MarkS22]

I’ll put twenty on bad ground. I’ve had more than one case of that over the years on different cars.

Thanks for sharing all the details. I’m glad to hear they’re taking it very seriously. They could have just fiddled with it in your driveway to try and make it work, but taking it back to do a full work up is the right thing to do.

Yes, the Service Shop Supervisor just reached out, reaffirmed they’re dedicated to fixing everything, and (again) I was offered alternate transportation.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes, the Service Shop Supervisor just reached out, reaffirmed they’re dedicated to fixing everything, and (again) I was offered alternate transportation.

They know of this thread, of course.

 

[MarkS22]

It's now 11 pages and I have kids so.. Is it unbricked yet and was it the 12v. @MarkS22 you promised to message each and every one us directly if I recall correctly, which I probably don't. BTW, my shoes are still bricked and in the shop so I can feel your pain.

Sorry. I didn’t receive your RSVP to my World Tour Evite.

(It’s still in the service center... maybe right next to your shoes.)

 

[T34ME]

We can take bets now:

• a blown fuse
• a fault (broken component within) whatever model 3 calls its DC-DC converter
• 12v battery
• poor connector or bad ground

Okay, I've thought this through carefully. Money is on the hamster in the cage died.

 

[ikjadoon]

No, the term “brick” was co-opted by the anti-Tesla media in describing something that happened to a few of the first 1% of Tesla owners( i.e., Roadster owners). That’s why it carries such a pejorative connotation. It’s automatic clickbait now.

Roadsters that were drained in that manner were bricked. It would be unwise and outlandish to take a single incident and now cast that as "the new definition for all Tesla vehicles henceforth." If you all have such issues referring to technology failing outright needing a proprietary repair as a "brick", please write to Tesla to change their Tesla.com/about page,

Launched in 2008, the Roadster unveiled Tesla’s cutting-edge battery technology and electric powertrain.

It's technology. Technology bricks, from a screen to a computer to a car, for a hundred different reasons. They were correct calling those Roadsters bricks, if they were drained as such. Most normal people had no issue calling it a "brick". We can come out of the Dark Ages of Tesla: we don't have to be scared of words that we were scared of when the IPO was filed or when Tesla was nearing bankruptcy.

A brick doesn't mean Tesla is going to fail tomorrow and all Model 3's are under attack. Instead, it shows an insincere trust to Tesla: just because one Model 3 is bricked doesn't mean they all are.

@TexasEV already corrected the misconception of where 'brick' came from.

But really. 'Maintaining composure?? No one attacked, there was no reason to have to 'maintain composure', unless he was someone who easily took offense at a differing opinion. And clearly he is not that kind of person.

A large number of us come from a software/hardware engineering background. I'm sure you're well aware that a lot of terminology has a different connotation in different industries. It's not unusual. I ended up changing the name of the medical device validation team at Intel to 'design assurance', because they all had a preconceived idea of what 'validation' meant for software. It's different in the medical device field, even though both the chip group and the medical device group both called it 'validation'. The easiest way to get people to let go of a past definition was to just come up with a new name.

So let's move on. This whole discussion is way out of hand. There is history. You want to ignore it. Doesn't change the past and that's fine.

Everyone else, but the 1% of Tesla diehards, have had no issue referring to a dead electric vehicle that won't accept a charge = brick. Maintaining composure: I laughed every time people "defended" their usage of the word brick when their car wouldn't charge. A moderator was requested to change the title by the OP. Surely this discussion should have never been started. The OP doesn't own a Roadster. This isn't 2008.

"There is history." Did all Roadsters brick? No. Are all Model 3s bricking? No. The more people are afraid of a word and need to police its usage, it underlies a deep-seated fear and reactionary (not logical) response.

iPhone's brick all the time. I don't see Apple fans saying, "Hey, don't call your iPhone that won't turn on and take a charge as a "brick", OK? We have a real history with that word and a lot of anti-Apple people say that's a brick. But it isn't, OK? That's not how it works and we don't appreciate this sloppy language here on our forums. Don't call it a brick. You might even request the moderator to change it."

 

[ikjadoon]

We can take bets now:

• a blown fuse
• a fault (broken component within) whatever model 3 calls its DC-DC converter
• 12v battery
• poor connector or bad ground

My money's on bad ground as it seems more manufacturing related.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

In this case IMO @bonnie is right in that "bricked" has a specific meaning when it comes to BEVs - meaning to big battery has died. I think that is not something up for debate realistically. It simply is defined by now.

That said, I don't think we should care about thread titles generating third-party posts as much. I don't think the misuse of the term was causing any real confusion here. People could have just let it be and discussed the actual story?

 

[MarkS22]

But really. 'Maintaining composure?? No one attacked, there was no reason to have to 'maintain composure', unless he was someone who easily took offense at a differing opinion. And clearly he is not that kind of person.

A large number of us come from a software/hardware engineering background. I'm sure you're well aware that a lot of terminology has a different connotation in different industries. It's not unusual. I ended up changing the name of the medical device validation team at Intel to 'design assurance', because they all had a preconceived idea of what 'validation' meant for software. It's different in the medical device field, even though both the chip group and the medical device group both called it 'validation'. The easiest way to get people to let go of a past definition was to just come up with a new name.

So let's move on. This whole discussion is way out of hand. There is history. You want to ignore it. Doesn't change the past and that's fine.

Yeah, I certainly didn’t take it personally and I appreciate hearing other viewpoints. You’ll note I asked to change the thread title to prevent any confusion.

We’re all early adopters to varying degrees and we just need to learn and respect one another... especially when we’re flooded with 300,000+ muggles over the next year or two. Now that’s gonna be fun.

 

[MarkS22]

Roadsters that were drained in that manner were bricked. It would be unwise and outlandish to take a single incident and now cast that as "the new definition for all Tesla vehicles henceforth." If you all have such issues referring to technology failing outright needing a proprietary repair as a "brick", please write to Tesla to change their Tesla.com/about page,



It's technology. Technology bricks, from a screen to a computer to a car, for a hundred different reasons. They were correct calling those Roadsters bricks, if they were drained as such. Most normal people had no issue calling it a "brick". We can come out of the Dark Ages of Tesla: we don't have to be scared of words that we were scared of when the IPO was filed or when Tesla was nearing bankruptcy.

A brick doesn't mean Tesla is going to fail tomorrow and all Model 3's are under attack. Instead, it shows an insincere trust to Tesla: just because one Model 3 is bricked doesn't mean they all are.



Everyone else, but the 1% of Tesla diehards, have had no issue referring to a dead electric vehicle that won't accept a charge = brick. Maintaining composure: I laughed every time people "defended" their usage of the word brick when their car wouldn't charge. A moderator was requested to change the title by the OP. Surely this discussion should have never been started. The OP doesn't own a Roadster. This isn't 2008.

"There is history." Did all Roadsters brick? No. Are all Model 3s bricking? No. The more people are afraid of a word and need to police its usage, it underlies a deep-seated fear and reactionary (not logical) response.

iPhone's brick all the time. I don't see Apple fans saying, "Hey, don't call your iPhone that won't turn on and take a charge as a "brick", OK? We have a real history with that word and a lot of anti-Apple people say that's a brick. But it isn't, OK? That's not how it works and we don't appreciate this sloppy language here on our forums. Don't call it a brick. You might even request the moderator to change it."

I do appreciate your explanation of how I originally used the terminology, but I agree it became a bigger deal than it needed to be.

I’m relatively outspoken here, willing to praise Tesla when they do something great or call them out if I feel they made a mistake. I don’t feel like I was pressured to change the title. If I could get the point across more accurately to everyone with a word change, that’s fine with me.

Now, I just want my car back... and for Tesla to learn as much as possible from it. I’ve sent them more detailed notes and private videos to help them diagnose.