Tesla Model 3 vs BMW 3 Series (Electrek)

[electracity]

Naw, I was just expecting the Model 3 to be capable of making more of an impact on the real mass market versus the smaller, more upscale market and am disappointed. I'll definitely admit that I have no one to blame other than myself for my disappointment.

The model 2 would be mass market. Musk went out of his way to say that they have decided to not pursue the model 2. They are stimulating the market with an aspirational car targeted at the upper middle class.

 

[cdub]

Naw, I was just expecting the Model 3 to be capable of making more of an impact on the real mass market versus the smaller, more upscale market and am disappointed. I'll definitely admit that I have no one to blame other than myself for my disappointment.

Why? They delivered EXACLTY what they promised and even more. A 220 mile car for $35k.

How are you disappointed?

 

[206er]

Why? They delivered EXACLTY what they promised and even more. A 220 mile car for $35k.

How are you disappointed?

Was hoping that the 220 mi, $35k base wouldn't be so bare bones feature-wise. Sure it's a nice looking EV with good range, but the whole "mass market" scheme has had us comparing it to similarly priced, feature-laden Hondas, Toyotas, Acuras and Lexuses. Coming from a Honda-Acura background, I could care less about performance driving and assumed that some features, like heated power front seats, would be standard like they are on our cheaper and older Acura.

We're holding onto our early morning 3/31/16 west coast reservation for now, but will probably end up canceling and buying another decently optioned Acura. Anxious to see what other manufacturers have up their sleeves EV-wise for 2019 onward.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yeah, in the end it is not hard to see someone would have preferred a $35,000 Tesla with less performance and more features. If the compromises Tesla chose do not fit you, there is little you can do.

It is an understandable trade-off to want. Not all care about 5,6 seconds... It really is the granularity of options where, in usual Tesla style, some people are left wanting.

With an average premium car there are tons of options and variants to choose your personal compromise from.

Even if you are understanding of Tesla for this (they are still a relatively small - for the industry - company, after all - so even I certainly am understanding to an extent), I think it is warranted to be understanding of disappointed buyers as well. Not all are going to find a bit and it's too bad.

 

[Big-T]

Like @jelloslug says, I'm not seeing what they missed. They said they would make a $35k EV that would be competitive with a base 3 series without even considering the "EV" part. And it seems they did, from the comparisons.......I think the problems are your expectations and whatever rumors you heard, not with how Tesla presented the car (to me it was very clear).

I don't exactly remember how they phrased that it would be competitive with the 3 series Z(whether that meant performance, price, dimensions, or what) but I do remember that multiple times, including Friday night, Elon has said it would be the BEST car for 35k - period.

I guess, for me, at 35k, it's still a compelling car but I think they fell short of it being "The Best". At the end of the day though, I'm willing to wait for what the industry analysts and reviewers say (CR, Car and Driver, Edmunds, etc) all the folks that claimed that the Model S was the best car ever, will they call the Model 3 the best car ever for 35k? I don't think so, but I'm willing to wait an see when they actually create that 35k car and it gets objectively compared by the folks driving it.

 

[cdub]

Was hoping that the 220 mi, $35k base wouldn't be so bare bones feature-wise. Sure it's a nice looking EV with good range, but the whole "mass market" scheme has had us comparing it to similarly priced, feature-laden Hondas, Toyotas, Acuras and Lexuses. Coming from a Honda-Acura background, I could care less about performance driving and assumed that some features, like heated power front seats, would be standard like they are on our cheaper and older Acura.

We're holding onto our early morning 3/31/16 west coast reservation for now, but will probably end up canceling and buying another decently optioned Acura. Anxious to see what other manufacturers have up their sleeves EV-wise for 2019 onward.

Cancelling because of lack of powered and heated seats on the base. Sorry I can't wrap my head around that.

I've personally never had those features in any car I've owned and do fine without.

 

[cdub]

Was hoping that the 220 mi, $35k base wouldn't be so bare bones feature-wise.

Also it's really NOT bareboned. It has nav and rearview which in most cars is an option.

Plus all the active AP safety features which is usually an option.

 

[brkaus]

Yeah, in the end it is not hard to see someone would have preferred a $35,000 Tesla with less performance and more features. If the compromises Tesla chose do not fit you, there is little you can do.

It is an understandable trade-off to want. Not all care about 5,6 seconds... It really is the granularity of options where, in usual Tesla style, some people are left wanting.

With an average premium car there are tons of options and variants to choose your personal compromise from.

Even if you are understanding of Tesla for this (they are still a relatively small - for the industry - company, after all - so even I certainly am understanding to an extent), I think it is warranted to be understanding of disappointed buyers as well. Not all are going to find a bit and it's too bad.

True statement.

I would have to guess that they can provide the performance for a lower cost than the other features, so better ROI. Makes sense to target the performance enthusiasts.

They also appear to have more demand than supply, so no reason to go to the bottom end. I'm guessing China/Korea will pick that side of the market soon enough.

Personally, i think the M3 compares favorably to a 3-series, based on how I would personally option each of the cars. But that is just me. Everyone will be different. We also have an Acura is our household because of the feature set they provide that that specific price point. It just happens to by dying with 155k miles on it. Hoping it hangs on long enough that I get a chance to test drive a M3 and compare to others on the market.

 

[gavine]

Anyone who is talking about buying an Audi A4 or Honda Civic instead of a Model 3 obviously has never driven a Tesla. I know some say they don't care about performance, but once you drive one of these, you'll understand why it is so much better. A front-wheel-drive 4-cylinder Audi isn't even in the same league as a Model 3. I urge anyone on the fence to drive one before you buy anything else. You will become obsessed with EVs very quickly. And, the longer you own an EV, the more you realize how silly ICE engines are.

Also, for those comparing it to Camry, Accord, etc....look at what the Model S did. It had many buyers who never even thought about spending that much money on a car. So why wouldn't the Model 3 to the same thing to people in the lower range of the market? I think it will.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I would have to guess that they can provide the performance for a lower cost than the other features, so better ROI.

Indeed, a benefit of BEV.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Anyone who is talking about buying an Audi A4 or Honda Civic instead of a Model 3 obviously has never driven a Tesla. I know some say they don't care about performance, but once you drive one of these, you'll understand why it is so much better. A front-wheel-drive 4-cylinder Audi isn't even in the same league as a Model 3. I urge anyone on the fence to drive one before you buy anything else. You will become obsessed with EVs very quickly. And, the longer you own an EV, the more you realize how silly ICE engines are.

People have very different priotities, mapping your preferences on others rarely works. A front-wheel-drive 4-cylinder Audi is definitely the better car for some people. And no, not all become obsessed with EVs.

Look, I get where you are coming from. But the thing is, not all buyers value the same things. A high-performance rear wheel-drive sedan (which Model 3 clearly is even at base level), it may surprise you, is not the dream car of the whole world. Not even after they drive it.

Also, for those comparing it to Camry, Accord, etc....look at what the Model S did. It had many buyers who never even thought about spending that much money on a car. So why wouldn't the Model 3 to the same thing to people in the lower range of the market? I think it will.

On this we agree, though one big reason is lack of choice for large-battery BEVs. Once there is more choice, we shall see if the logic remains the same. Once someone does that A4 sized front wheel-drive wagon large battery BEV for Europe, it will sell tons, no matter the 0-60...

 

[postpast]

One of the problems with the 3 Series to Model 3 comparison is that BMW puts large discounts into their leases. If I remember correctly; over 85% of 3 Series are leased.

On their Canadian website right now, you can get a 4-year high mileage lease for $4000 down and $350 (CAD) a month. That is a x320i with all wheel drive, premium package, cold weather package and decent looking rims. And that is before any haggling.

A Model 3 with decent rims, choice of colour, non-cloth seats and all wheel drive is likely going to be over double that amount.

I'm not saying the 3 Series is as nice of car, I'm just saying that the reason people are affording 3 series is largely because BMW artificially inflates their residual value and uses near 0% API to get lease amounts low.

 

[xav-]

I personally think it is a steal price wise. $55k for a fully loaded 335i with autopilot etc. I was pleasantly surprised when I heard about the options and their pricing.

$9k for 40 percent battery upgrade is awesome! Less than a year ago, $9k would buy you the software upgrade from 60 to 75

 

[chronopc]

I think you a word there.

Was it "range", "price", "stereo"?

if the 2018/2019 Nissan leaf comes out with greater "what" than the base Model 3?

The 2020/2021 [insert car here] is going to give the Model 3 a run for its money.

I personally think it is a steal price wise. $55k for a fully loaded 335i with autopilot etc. I was pleasantly surprised when I heard about the options and their pricing.

$9k for 40 percent battery upgrade is awesome! Less than a year ago, $9k would buy you the software upgrade from 60 to 75

As a day 1 depositor there was only 1 car I compared the Model 3 with and that was the Model S and I'm pretty happy with 310 miles range for less than half the price of a P100D base.

 

[gavine]

Look, I get where you are coming from. But the thing is, not all buyers value the same things.

You're right. Case in point, my brother and his wife were in the market for a new car for her. They looked at mid-size sedans (Camry, Accord, Altima, Focus, etc.). His wife based her decision solely on how well she can see out of the back window. Yep...that's all she cared about. (The Altima won by the way).

 

[chronopc]

You're right. Case in point, my brother and his wife were in the market for a new car for her. They looked at mid-size sedans (Camry, Accord, Altima, Focus, etc.). His wife based her decision solely on how well she can see out of the back window. Yep...that's all she cared about. (The Altima won by the way).

She would hate the S then. That's the one thing about the S I could not stand. The view outside the back is by far the worst in any car I have ever seen. I mentioned this during the test drive and the Tesla guy told me to have the rear camera on at all times.

 

[ElectricTundra]

How will resale of an ICE like 3-series or A4 (or any ICE?) be in 4 years? Will demand (new & used) have shifted to BEV's? Will a number of petrol stations have closed making petrol less convenient to purchase? What will the cost of petrol be vs electricity (purchased or solar generated)? Will petrol companies have begun to milk what remains of their cow? How will those buying used in 2021 view the resale of ICE in 2025 and what impact will that have on how they value a used ICE? Will an ICE car in 2021 be viewed similar to a CRT computer display a few years after LED/LCD was introduced?

 

[jelloslug]

I don't exactly remember how they phrased that it would be competitive with the 3 series Z(whether that meant performance, price, dimensions, or what) but I do remember that multiple times, including Friday night, Elon has said it would be the BEST car for 35k - period.

I guess, for me, at 35k, it's still a compelling car but I think they fell short of it being "The Best". At the end of the day though, I'm willing to wait for what the industry analysts and reviewers say (CR, Car and Driver, Edmunds, etc) all the folks that claimed that the Model S was the best car ever, will they call the Model 3 the best car ever for 35k? I don't think so, but I'm willing to wait an see when they actually create that 35k car and it gets objectively compared by the folks driving it.

Have you driven a $35K 3 Series? It is not the work of art that some people think it is.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Have you driven a $35K 3 Series? It is not the work of art that some people think it is.

There are good reasons why people pay 2x to 3x as much for a 6 or 7 series – smoother, quieter, roomier, faster, torquier, and greater prestige. 3 series are/were OK cars for the money but they are not a 7. Just as a 3 is not an S.

Model S decimated sales of 6-Series from 8,xxx in 2013, 14, 15 to 4,000 in 2016 to an estimated 3,000 in 2017. And has eroded 7-Series over the same period. Model 3 has already likely had an impact on 3-Series sales in 2017 assuming the precipitous declines are indeed due to Model 3 reservations. We can certainly expect Model 3 going forward to have an impact similar to what the S did to 6.

 

[AssortedBread]

Was hoping that the 220 mi, $35k base wouldn't be so bare bones feature-wise. Sure it's a nice looking EV with good range, but the whole "mass market" scheme has had us comparing it to similarly priced, feature-laden Hondas, Toyotas, Acuras and Lexuses. Coming from a Honda-Acura background, I could care less about performance driving and assumed that some features, like heated power front seats, would be standard like they are on our cheaper and older Acura.

We're holding onto our early morning 3/31/16 west coast reservation for now, but will probably end up canceling and buying another decently optioned Acura. Anxious to see what other manufacturers have up their sleeves EV-wise for 2019 onward.

Its hardly barebones.

Look at this Bloomberg chart comparing the Model 3's direct competition.