Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live

[HankLloydRight]

Heh thanks for clarifying. I kept doing sorts & thinking "Boy that's weird P85s are showing up in the P85+ strata. Not moving 'em at that price."

If you see any anomalies, please speak up!

Just to clarify: the 44 cars in the Hidden section are CPO cars that were removed but then put back. But (if I'm understanding this correctly) they won't show up under any region if you go to the TM Pre-owned site. We know they are available because CPOC pulls the page for that specific VIN. All correct?
We don't know beyond speculation why a car is pulled and then later placed in the Hidden purgatory, but I find the product mix interesting. Whereas the P85+s comprise just over 40% (114/281) of the CPO listings, the plus edition is nearly 3/4s of the Hidden listings (32/44).

That's correct sort of. They were removed from the CPO site and are not selectable in any region, but appear to be salable on the individual VIN page. They may or may not have been "put back". My suspicion is just inventory rotation.

Oh, and if anyone actually buys one of the hidden cars, please let us know.

 

[Cyclone]

One would imagine that even if nobody looks at the car, every couple weeks the vampire drain would be enough that the centers need to look at the cars and that would make a great opportunity to put them in the front-end CPO listings inventory. Given that Tesla is limiting the number of cars per location being listed, that necessitates one car being dropped. It is probably also a good way to validate the feature/option set on the cars since we have seen discrepancies in the listings to what's on the actual car.

 

[BoerumHill]

If you see any anomalies, please speak up!




That's correct sort of. They were removed from the CPO site and are not selectable in any region, but appear to be salable on the individual VIN page. They may or may not have been "put back". My suspicion is just inventory rotation.

Oh, and if anyone actually buys one of the hidden cars, please let us know.

Gotcha, so it's a working theory at this point. Hopefully we'll get confirmation. Or we could just call to verify if Vin xxxxx is available.




The new columns are an awesome feature, Hank! Well worth the price of a couple lattes.

 

[Drucifer]

but I find the product mix interesting. Whereas the P85+s comprise just over 40% (114/281) of the CPO listings, the plus edition is nearly 3/4s of the Hidden listings (32/44).

Totally makes sense. Top income buyers who trade cars every 1-2 years dumping their + to get a D.

 

[3mp_kwh]

Quick question: Anybody having bought CPO, do you remember the process of reserving online as having a place where you notated comments, or concerns?

Thanks.

 

[BoerumHill]

Totally makes sense. Top income buyers who trade cars every 1-2 years dumping their + to get a D.

I agree that would explain the P85+ plurality of cars in the overall CPO program. The unexplained aspect is why does that plurality become a supermajority in the hidden category. Since we're not really sure what triggers hidden - hidden meaning removed from CPO but the individual Vin page becomes active later - I don't think we can answer.

 

[Drucifer]

I agree that would explain the P85+ plurality of cars in the overall CPO program. The unexplained aspect is why does that plurality become a supermajority in the hidden category. Since we're not really sure what triggers hidden - hidden meaning removed from CPO but the individual Vin page becomes active later - I don't think we can answer.

Since they are the most expensive CPO cars, they are also slower moving than others. Cars below $55k move very quickly. The new market (P85+, P85) of cars selling to "high net-worth" individuals in 2012-2014 that have been turned in are not well matched to the 2nd "aspiring" buyer, looking to move up from a Prius or similar for a semi-affordable down/monthly payment. The 2-3 year old 60 or lower cost/higher mileage 85 matches that market more closely.

Personally, I was a unicorn. Without CPO, I probably would have bought a new 70D with mid-level of options. I just decided that I would be more willing to have a 2 year old car in like new condition with CPO warranty to get every option (and save a few bucks, while I'm at it). There is some of that, but I think more people in my position would go the other way and get a new car.

 

[MsElectric]

We don't know beyond speculation why a car is pulled and then later placed in the Hidden purgatory, but I find the product mix interesting. Whereas the P85+s comprise just over 40% (114/281) of the CPO listings, the plus edition is nearly 3/4s of the Hidden listings (32/44).

I think cars get "hidden" when they are not selling to make room for other vehicles that may sell. I am not at all surprised to see plus edition cars not selling as well as I personally never saw any benefit for getting the plus edition.

The Plus edition cars are more expensive than the standard P version but the key thing is that it is not any faster. Sure it *might* corner better when pushed to its limits but I am pretty much interested in straight line acceleration and will not be pushing the car to its cornering limits. Also with the less durable 21" low profile tires that I would not get for our badly maintained streets the plus package really has no value in it to me.

Given an identical P85 and a P85+ at the same price, I would get the P85 with the more durable wheels.

If other CPO buyers feel the way I do, they might have a hard time justifying much of a premium, if any at all, for the plus package. I do see it is a great option for RWD purists who want the absolute best in performance but I wonder if there are enough of them around to move the plus inventory in significant numbers when you can get pretty much the same straight line acceleration with a regular P.

I would think they'd want to move that plus inventory soon because by the time the P85Ds and the 85Ds are added to the CPO inventory the bottom is going to fall out of the plus edition values.

 

[BoerumHill]

I agree that would explain the P85+ plurality of cars in the overall CPO program. The unexplained aspect is why does that plurality become a supermajority in the hidden category. Since we're not really sure what triggers hidden - hidden meaning removed from CPO but the individual Vin page becomes active later - I don't think we can answer.

Since they are the most expensive CPO cars, they are also slower moving than others. Cars below $55k move very quickly. The new market (P85+, P85) of cars selling to "high net-worth" individuals in 2012-2014 that have been turned in are not well matched to the 2nd "aspiring" buyer, looking to move up from a Prius or similar for a semi-affordable down/monthly payment. The 2-3 year old 60 or lower cost/higher mileage 85 matches that market more closely.

Personally, I was a unicorn. Without CPO, I probably would have bought a new 70D with mid-level of options. I just decided that I would be more willing to have a 2 year old car in like new condition with CPO warranty to get every option (and save a few bucks, while I'm at it). There is some of that, but I think more people in my position would go the other way and get a new car.

I think cars get "hidden" when they are not selling to make room for other vehicles that may sell. I am not at all surprised to see plus edition cars not selling as well as I personally never saw any benefit for getting the plus edition.

The Plus edition cars are more expensive than the standard P version but the key thing is that it is not any faster. Sure it *might* corner better when pushed to its limits but I am pretty much interested in straight line acceleration and will not be pushing the car to its cornering limits. Also with the less durable 21" low profile tires that I would not get for our badly maintained streets the plus package really has no value in it to me.

Given an identical P85 and a P85+ at the same price, I would get the P85 with the more durable wheels.

If other CPO buyers feel the way I do, they might have a hard time justifying much of a premium, if any at all, for the plus package. I do see it is a great option for RWD purists who want the absolute best in performance but I wonder if there are enough of them around to move the plus inventory in significant numbers when you can get pretty much the same straight line acceleration with a regular P.

I would think they'd want to move that plus inventory soon because by the time the P85Ds and the 85Ds are added to the CPO inventory the bottom is going to fall out of the plus edition values.

Aha, thanks for expanding. Makes sense - move out the slower moving, higher priced models and slot in cheaper Vins that will turnover. There would be no need to do all those gymnastics, but they're determined to control the flow and demand by capping each region at 40 listings.





re: P85 v. P85+ - I don't disagree with your line of thinking at all, MsElectric. In fact I've driven S60 and 70D, and both have awesome acceleration for a large sedan and superb handling. I'd argue you can buy almost any config Model S, any Vin, and you're going to be driving one the most fun cars ever built (and safest...quickest...ever improving from OTA updates...et al.)

That said, if you dig up old threads where folks are comparing Performance to Performance Plus, there is an enormous delta to some drivers. It's not something that would appeal to a large segment. But for driving enthusiasts, there is a discernable difference. But the P85+ doesn't have broad appeal because of the staggered setup - which Hank and others have proven you can disregard and square up - and it eats those 21s for breakfast.

IIRC Hank has 2002ish (?) M5 e39. There are many performance fans who hold the opinion that is the best M5 ever built, and it's arguably the ultimate production sedan. That's an example of the narrow market the Plus edition is targeted towards. If you are coming into the Model S from another luxury sedan, or stretching your budget to step up, handling characteristics are not the prism you are viewing the Model S from. In that case, the 9" rear tires and stiffer ride hold little sway. The pragmatic answer is to get what you need and ignore features/options you don't see the value in. As I said above, you're getting an awesome EV regardless.

 

[HankLloydRight]

IIRC Hank has 2002ish (?) M5 e39. There are many performance fans who hold the opinion that is the best M5 ever built, and it's arguably the ultimate production sedan. That's an example of the narrow market the Plus edition is targeted towards. If you are coming into the Model S from another luxury sedan, or stretching your budget to step up, handling characteristics are not the prism you are viewing the Model S from. In that case, the 9" rear tires and stiffer ride hold little sway. The pragmatic answer is to get what you need and ignore features/options you don't see the value in. As I said above, you're getting an awesome EV regardless.

Everything you say here is true! I love sport-sedans, and yes, arguably the e39 is one of the best in that class (before BMW went all crazy with the "M" line with v10s and v12s and gadgets and electronics out the wazoo!).

What's funny here is that I didn't start out looking for a P85+. I was looking at inventory cars with a good discount, and the discounts on the S85s P85s were pretty damn good -- a lot less than I would have spent new. Until my sales advisor found a Blue P85+ for about the price that a P85 would have been ordered new at the time. Even though it was a bit more than I wanted to spend, it was such a good deal, I couldn't turn it away, and bought the P85+ about 6 months before I really was planning on getting one. But BOY OH BOY am I so happy that I ended up with a P85+ instead of just a P85. While both amazing cars, there is a palatable difference in handling and drivability. I'm sure I would have been just as happy with an Inventory P85, mostly because I likely wouldn't have really experienced a P85+. Also, I did square up the 21" rims and have 245/35/21s tires on them for summer (and run 19" rims in the winter.) I've also notice no real difference between the 9" and 8.5" rims in the rear.

And of course, every time MsElectric chimes in to slam the 21" rims which SHE HAS NEVER OWNED, I have to chime in that I also live in the same NYC area, and haven't HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM with the 21" rims, and I've hit a couple whopper potholes. So again, please stop posting about the Model S 21" rims with which you have no experience. thank you.

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Gotcha, so it's a working theory at this point. Hopefully we'll get confirmation. Or we could just call to verify if Vin xxxxx is available.

Last week I sent an email to sales@tm with a specific question asking if a "hidden" P85+ was still available for sale. (I just said 'it appears to be for sale, but not listed in the Los Angeles page'). They responded:

"The best solution I have for you will be to contact your local Tesla store. There, an advisor will be able to provide details about the specifics of that vehicle and also provide you with local CPO Model S inventory that best fit your needs. "

 

[ModelSFL]

There are some great deals for the P85s but I decided that the Autopilot feature was going to be worth more to me than a bigger battery. I ended up with a 60. Not sure if it was the right choice but I can only hope that AP is going to be awesome.

 

[jtpassat]

you can always swap out the 60 battery with a 85 in the future.

There are some great deals for the P85s but I decided that the Autopilot feature was going to be worth more to me than a bigger battery. I ended up with a 60. Not sure if it was the right choice but I can only hope that AP is going to be awesome.

 

[ModelSFL]

you can always swap out the 60 battery with a 85 in the future.

I hope they have 120 kwh batteries by then

 

[brantse]

you can always swap out the 60 battery with a 85 in the future.

Is this true? I really don't know, but I've never heard that discussed before. FWIW, there are other differences between the 60's and 85's (ie. motor power ratings).

 

[ModelSFL]

Is this true? I really don't know, but I've never heard that discussed before. FWIW, there are other differences between the 60's and 85's (ie. motor power ratings).

Hopeful wishing. Not true as far as I know.

 

[jtpassat]

according to this there are no differences, it's all software.

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh (Page 3)

Is this true? I really don't know, but I've never heard that discussed before. FWIW, there are other differences between the 60's and 85's (ie. motor power ratings).

 

[Cyclone]

you can always swap out the 60 battery with a 85 in the future.

Is this true? I really don't know, but I've never heard that discussed before. FWIW, there are other differences between the 60's and 85's (ie. motor power ratings).

according to this there are no differences, it's all software.

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh (Page 3)

It should be noted that one or two folks in the past have done this, recently Tesla has declined to let it happen (or made it price-adverse to choose to do so). The common belief is that until the Gigafactory is running, Tesla is battery constrained for production. As such, they will make warranty replacements if necessary, but they won't optionally sell you a battery for an upgrade because it means one less car they chan produce currently. However, this should also be noted that it's discussions on these forums and not firsthand knowledge.

 

[MsElectric]

And of course, every time MsElectric chimes in to slam the 21" rims which SHE HAS NEVER OWNED, I have to chime in that I also live in the same NYC area, and haven't HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM with the 21" rims, and I've hit a couple whopper potholes. So again, please stop posting about the Model S 21" rims with which you have no experience. thank you.

I am sure you know how much I respect you but it is disappointing that you feel just because I have not owned a car with 21" low profile wheels I can't comment on this matter based on my past experience with low profile wheels. Tesla low profile wheels are of course not magical (or made of Titanium) and behave the same as low profile wheels offered by Mercedes. I am so incredibly happy that you have survived fine with low profile wheels on NY streets. Good for you Hank but it is a matter of physics that given a bad pothole or poor road conditions a regular profile wheel will offer better survivability than a low profile wheel. I have very low tolerance for wheel damage and failures and based on my past experience with that type of wheels, I will not get them again in a car.

There is no logical reason to put down my reasoning that is based on my personal experience and Tesla Motors' own statement on the Web page where you order a Model S. I understand you love your low profile wheels and I'm happy for you. Just understand that there are a segment of customers who have less tolerance for the possibility of wheel damage. Just search the Tesla forums for actual posts by Tesla owners who've had durability issues with 21" wheels. Again, I am so happy you have not have had such issues but others have and there are those who value being able to minimize potential wheel damage. One example of non-damage does not override the underlying physics.

I am sure as smart as you are, you can understand that my comments have to do with the physics of the wheels. As the amount of sidewall is reduced the propensity for wheel damage increases. Furthermore I am sharing the official position of Tesla Motors pertaining to the wheels. The following is what the Tesla Design studio has to say about the wheels when you order a car:

I have had low profile wheels before on a Mercedes and I've had a horrible experience with them. As I've said before for the same cost I would rather get an identically configured P85 over a P85+ because of the more durable wheels. It is a fact that the 19" wheels are more durable and it is a matter of physics. Tesla or Mercedes, I will not own another car with low profile wheels and I appreciate you allowing me to share my views without trying to marginalize them. I don't necessarily need to own low profile wheels in 21" to know they are less durable And thank you, for all you do for the Tesla community.

 

[jtpassat]

I give this 62k P85 less than 12 hours - 7/14/15 2pm EST

85 kWh Performance Model S P17496 | Tesla Motors

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who in their right mind would pay the same price for a S60 vs. P85 I just posted just because it has 20k less miles?

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/P44916

 

[3mp_kwh]

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who in their right mind would pay the same price for a S60 vs. P85 I just posted just because it has 20k less miles?

60 kWh Model S P44916 | Tesla Motors

I think if it has Autopilot, you are supposed to give up your first born.