EVNow
Well-Known Member
Remember next year the verbiage will remain the same ...
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ...
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Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot
- Thread starter fholbert
- Start date
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ...
sublimejackman
Member
haha. Yep
Looking at the raw NHTSA is wild. I know that there are more cars with AP on the road than all other level 2 systems but people are using it in the snow, fog, backroads and all sorts of innapropriate places. Hell one person who was using AP on a surface road hit and killed a pedestrian while it was in use or shortly after they disengaged. Just maniacs.
Hopefully the recall works and reduces these incidents without completely knee capping AP on the highway.
Raw data: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/ffdd/sgo-2021-01/SGO-2021-01_Incident_Reports_ADAS.csv
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sublimejackman
Member
Bro. What part of this do you not understand? People who didn't spend 13 years researching EVs on a daily basis, now own millions of these cars. And they have what could be described charitably as a predatory (outright lie) sales pitch for a $200/mo or five figure product plastered in their cars. Tesla is acting no better than those people who call your grandma and steals her credit card info.
Only Tesla gets away with this and it hurts the brand
I disconnected mine from WiFi and blocked the MAC address on my router for good measure. If Tesla wants to waste AT&T's bandwidth to update my Tesla to a newer version by force, there's nothing I can really do without putting the rest of the connected features at risk.
Stuff like this makes me long for the days when jailbreaking was popular, especially on earlier Apple iOS versions...
Stuff like this makes me long for the days when jailbreaking was popular, especially on earlier Apple iOS versions...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I don't get it. Is it a big brother thing?
Reminds me of my friend who wouldn't let MS update his PC. His security patches were three years old when he got hit. That didn't work out for him in the long run.
He also thinks the moon landing was faked, shot in a movie studio. He thinks JFK is still alive. North Korea hijacked and still has Malaysia Airlines 370.
2023.44.30.1 nowSo is it confirmed that the next update will activate the cabin camera when using auto-pilot? I hated this feature when I had FSD trial. I would get warned when I'm searching for music or trying to adjust the cabin fan via the touch screen.
2023.44.30 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
Tesla software update 2023.44.30 (FSD Beta 11.4.9) includes Over-the-Air (OTA) Recall, Autopilot Suspension, FSD Beta 11.4.9, Cabin Camera, Alternate Routes While Driving, Custom Lock Sounds, Park Assist Upgrade, Castle Doombad Game, Play Games on Rear Screen, Apple Podcasts, Rear Passenger...www.notateslaapp.com
2023.44.30.1 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
Tesla software update 2023.44.30.1 (FSD Beta 11.4.9) includes Over-the-Air (OTA) Recall, Autopilot Suspension, FSD Beta 11.4.9, Cabin Camera, Alternate Routes While Driving, Custom Lock Sounds, Park Assist Upgrade, Castle Doombad Game, Play Games on Rear Screen, Apple Podcasts, Rear Passenger...
www.notateslaapp.com
Be careful with this. Doing so will disable many features, including map data updates and voice commands.
sublimejackman
Member
Yeah it just becomes a regular car. A really fast electric car but a lot of the features that make a Tesla, a Tesla are lost without connectivity.
I would venture a guess that this also disables supercharger access..?
sublimejackman
Member
Looks like it would only use the interior camera when approaching intersections/stop signs... maybe?2023.44.30.1 now
2023.44.30.1 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
Tesla software update 2023.44.30.1 (FSD Beta 11.4.9) includes Over-the-Air (OTA) Recall, Autopilot Suspension, FSD Beta 11.4.9, Cabin Camera, Alternate Routes While Driving, Custom Lock Sounds, Park Assist Upgrade, Castle Doombad Game, Play Games on Rear Screen, Apple Podcasts, Rear Passenger...
This was a big pain point of the NHTSA, many of the reported collisions in 2023 were in intersections. Including where one pedestrian was struck and killed.
zoomer0056
Active Member
All that is probably worth it to those who are obsessed with not driving while using Autopilot.
sublimejackman
Member
There was a period circa 2016-2018 where there was SOME justifcation for avoiding updates. Mainly around the navigation being screwed up and the new V8 UI being slow and buggy on the older HW1 nvidia chipset...
But in 2023, other than avoiding this update, there doesn't seem to be a reason...
Sooo... Is NHTSA asking/forcing other automakers with a lane keeping assist/centering feature to also issue more prominent warnings and suspend use of the feature if some improper use threshold is exceeded? I ask because in my Hondas when LKAS is engaged, there's nothing but a soft beep and message in the instrument cluster to "please place hands on the steering wheel". If I do not do that within the allotted amount of time, the feature turns off and the vehicle will numbly drive right off a cliff. I can ignore all warnings until the feature disengages continuosly without penalty. No matter how many times it disables, I can push one button to turn it right back on.
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sublimejackman
Member
The lady of the house has a CRV with LKAS. That technology is a pretty big departure from what Tesla has with AP. LKAS only works from 45mph+, doesn't automatically include ACC when on and is more an "assistant" than it takes control of the wheel. It doesn't really do the driving. Whereas AP does "do the driving". It does the drving, in most any condions. You as the human are to keep your hands on the wheel an pay attention but the car will do whatever it wants unless you intervene.
The pain point for the NHTSA is mostly on backroads, approaching intersections and stop signs and during inclement weather. 200+ of the collisons reported to them by Tesla were in these locations/situations. Including the ones that resulted in damage to other vehicles, personal injury, and a few deaths. The false sense of security in these scenarios is what they are attempting to remediate.
Honda doesn't self-report telemetricly but GM and Subaru do now. They have similar systems to what Honda has and between the two of them. In 2023 GM and Subaru combined reported fewer than 100 collisions in comparison to Tesla's 900+. (I know they probably have fewer cars on the road with AKAS than Tesla with AP)
As pointed out here earleir that's not the whole picture, there are caveats and "well actually's" but the short of it is that tons of people abuse AP. Including multiple people who posted here today about how they abuse it. At no point has anyone claimed that AP (other than Tesla's CEO haha) is safe enough for you to actually rely on it. That's especailly true when off the highway.
Hopefully this recall's OTA update addresses the issues around intersections and on backroads without kneecapping AP on the highway.
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Some of the newest Hondas build upon ACC and LKAS with TJA (Traffic Jam Assist), which basically allows LKAS to continue steering down to 0 MPH bringing functionality closer to Autopilot.
My Hondas won't provide as much steering torque and thus can't take curves as sharp as my Tesla (which, in a way, makes Hondas more dangerous because the feature can automatically cancel unexpectedly causing the vehicle to leave the intended lane before you have a chance to grab the wheel and steer back into your lane - possibly resulting in overcorrection).
As with Autopilot (so far, anyway), LKAS can be engaged without having to be on a controlled-access highway.
I don't drive on controlled-access highways on a daily basis (or even weekly or monthly for that matter). Most of my driving is on undivided, two-lane, farm-to-market roads at 60 MPH, loops, bypasses, and state highways with intersections and traffic lights. Limiting Autosteer to controlled-access highways would be MAJOR convenience feature.
My Hondas won't provide as much steering torque and thus can't take curves as sharp as my Tesla (which, in a way, makes Hondas more dangerous because the feature can automatically cancel unexpectedly causing the vehicle to leave the intended lane before you have a chance to grab the wheel and steer back into your lane - possibly resulting in overcorrection).
As with Autopilot (so far, anyway), LKAS can be engaged without having to be on a controlled-access highway.
I don't drive on controlled-access highways on a daily basis (or even weekly or monthly for that matter). Most of my driving is on undivided, two-lane, farm-to-market roads at 60 MPH, loops, bypasses, and state highways with intersections and traffic lights. Limiting Autosteer to controlled-access highways would be MAJOR convenience feature.
Nope, I simply want to avoid this particular software update for as long as possible. By thourougly ensuring no wifi connectivity, I am keeping my home network safe in case my "unpatched" Tesla becomes compromised by Chinese or Russian spyware and limits the scope of the botnet to the ATT LTE network.
Autopilot has relaxed attentiveness requirements when stopped at a red light, and it already shows a warning alert when traffic starts moving and the driver is not paying attention.
- Increased the strictness of driver attentiveness requirements when using Autosteer and approaching traffic lights and stops signs off-highway.
It's probably worth noting that the NHTSA in this Autopilot investigation / engineering analysis had also requested information from all the manufacturers who offer Level 2 ADAS in the US, many here probably remember the letters that were sent out to all the companies
Aside from the breadth of functionality and robustness of controls, whether or not it results in other recalls might be more dependent on whether there is legal action happening around those, just like how this investigation was initiated due to legal action. The NHTSA is largely reactionary, it depends big time on user/owner complaints and responds to action in courts.
But Tesla has taken a lot more risk than the other manufacturers, there was a time when Elon scoffed at the idea of using the cabin camera for driver monitoring at all.
Aside from the breadth of functionality and robustness of controls, whether or not it results in other recalls might be more dependent on whether there is legal action happening around those, just like how this investigation was initiated due to legal action. The NHTSA is largely reactionary, it depends big time on user/owner complaints and responds to action in courts.
But Tesla has taken a lot more risk than the other manufacturers, there was a time when Elon scoffed at the idea of using the cabin camera for driver monitoring at all.
Pure silliness. Since the update contains a recall, Tesla will eventually send it to your car via cellular. But even so, the car will not install it until scheduled by you (or someone you give access to your car).
Tha_Ape
Active Member
LOL! You'll still get the download through cellular, like every single major update. I held off on getting my radar turned off for months (you just need to delete your wifi network from your car, dont just disconnect it, it resets to "on" after every drive, but it never connects to a network it doesnt know the password for). After it downloads through cellular, you just have to ignore the install every time you get in the car and drive (press the x). Eventually it goes away (that means its downloading the next update), and then days later it'll start again.
That said.... the ability to play solitaire while the car was in motion was quietly removed and I'm pretty sure I didnt do any installs. Any govt related safety stuff will be forced on you I think.
Godspeed to you though! I ended up giving up once I thought it would affect my warranty (battery charging stuff, thermal controls updates, etc), plus a lot of new stuff was added that I wanted. The thing that helped me do it was driving a friends car without radar. It was "acceptable" to me. Not the best, but acceptable. You may want to see how this goes, it may not be nearly as bad as you think.... then again, maybe it will be worse!
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