Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

[zroger73]

Perhaps you misread something? There's a version 2023.44.1, with FSD 11.4.4. Teslafi shows nothing for a 2023.44.4.

I bet they meant 2023.44.30.4, which was first seen yesterday.

 

[Joesmoe3]

Perhaps you misread something? There's a version 2023.44.1, with FSD 11.4.4. Teslafi shows nothing for a 2023.44.4.

Yes, you’re right, and I updated. Sorry.

 

[Supcom]

Yes, you’re right, and I updated. Sorry.

Enjoy your inaugural update. Assuming Tesla gets this holiday update straightened out soon, you'll be getting another in short order.

 

[dansev]

Ahem. Must have been quite a while ago. Everybody has, I suppose, their breaking point.

But just to the rest of the hoi-polloi out there: I run FSD-b all the time. I occasionally change radio channels, look over at the map, fool with the wipers, and all that jazz. What I don't do is look at the screen for more than 15 seconds or so at a time, which is roughly the time it takes for the car to notice that eyeballs aren't out front.

For that matter, I still act like a driver: Look at the front, check the rear view mirror, check the speed, look out the side rear view mirrors, glance sideways, etc. Just like driver's ed: One does not keep ones eyes out front and locked. The car's monitoring system has never complained about that. Looking at the screen for too long.. sure, that. But one just keeps it short.

A couple of things here. First, I do think every situation is different. Maybe it's facial structure. Maybe it's body height. Maybe it's camera revision. Maybe it's glasses. Maybe it's camera installation/orientation subtleties. Maybe it's something else. But I think there is enough data to say that some have better luck than others regarding cabin camera strikes, when they are not absolutely looking at the road with both hands on the wheel. Second, just the *stress* of knowing that I maybe get put in AP jail makes it, well...stressful. It's really not a good system. They need to expire the strikes after a period of time. Someone in a previous post said a month. That sounds reasonable to me. If you get strikes in a month, one could argue you're doing something wrong. But if you get 5 in a YEAR, you should get punished? No.

But being locked out of standard AP for a week truly ruins the car for me for that week. I bought it specifically for AP. Not for any other reason. I drive 25 to 30k miles per year. Almost all on AP. That's why I bought it. OK, it's electric--great, but that's not why I bought it. It's REALLY fast--fun! But that's not why I bought it. It's cool--yup. But I only bought it for AP. And now they're going to take it away from me if I get caught changing the heating temperature after I turn on a podcast? Not ok!

 

[fholbert]

2023.44.30.3

I park in the garage with a clear WiFi signal. Just drove 49 miles, parked it, then drove back. No update yet.

 

[zroger73]

A couple of things here. First, I do think every situation is different. Maybe it's facial structure. Maybe it's body height. Maybe it's camera revision. Maybe it's glasses. Maybe it's camera installation/orientation subtleties. Maybe it's something else. But I think there is enough data to say that some have better luck than others regarding cabin camera strikes, when they are not absolutely looking at the road with both hands on the wheel. Second, just the *stress* of knowing that I maybe get put in AP jail makes it, well...stressful. It's really not a good system. They need to expire the strikes after a period of time. Someone in a previous post said a month. That sounds reasonable to me. If you get strikes in a month, one could argue you're doing something wrong. But if you get 5 in a YEAR, you should get punished? No.

But being locked out of standard AP for a week truly ruins the car for me for that week. I bought it specifically for AP. Not for any other reason. I drive 25 to 30k miles per year. Almost all on AP. That's why I bought it. OK, it's electric--great, but that's not why I bought it. It's REALLY fast--fun! But that's not why I bought it. It's cool--yup. But I only bought it for AP. And now they're going to take it away from me if I get caught changing the heating temperature after I turn on a podcast? Not ok!

Relax. It's not that bad. First, you have to accumulate five disengagements. How many have you had? I've had one in nearly 12,000 miles and that was on delivery day when I was driving home with the car having never owned a Tesla. Second, you lose Autosteer for seven days then your strikes reset. How awful it must be to actually have to operate a steering wheel for seven days. You still have Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

 

[fishy21]

A couple of things here. First, I do think every situation is different. Maybe it's facial structure. Maybe it's body height. Maybe it's camera revision. Maybe it's glasses. Maybe it's camera installation/orientation subtleties. Maybe it's something else. But I think there is enough data to say that some have better luck than others regarding cabin camera strikes, when they are not absolutely looking at the road with both hands on the wheel. Second, just the *stress* of knowing that I maybe get put in AP jail makes it, well...stressful. It's really not a good system. They need to expire the strikes after a period of time. Someone in a previous post said a month. That sounds reasonable to me. If you get strikes in a month, one could argue you're doing something wrong. But if you get 5 in a YEAR, you should get punished? No.

But being locked out of standard AP for a week truly ruins the car for me for that week. I bought it specifically for AP. Not for any other reason. I drive 25 to 30k miles per year. Almost all on AP. That's why I bought it. OK, it's electric--great, but that's not why I bought it. It's REALLY fast--fun! But that's not why I bought it. It's cool--yup. But I only bought it for AP. And now they're going to take it away from me if I get caught changing the heating temperature after I turn on a podcast? Not ok!

I do agree with you. If they rolled out in cabin camera with AP, I would have fought with Tesla for either compensation or buy back the car. I paid a premium for their software, and they dumbed it down. As people here say, Tesla is a software company and you're investing in the future. You'd expect they would be smarter than this. I guess Tesla is just a plain car company...

 

[69KWH]

A couple of things here. First, I do think every situation is different. Maybe it's facial structure. Maybe it's body height. Maybe it's camera revision. Maybe it's glasses. Maybe it's camera installation/orientation subtleties. Maybe it's something else. But I think there is enough data to say that some have better luck than others regarding cabin camera strikes, when they are not absolutely looking at the road with both hands on the wheel. Second, just the *stress* of knowing that I maybe get put in AP jail makes it, well...stressful. It's really not a good system. They need to expire the strikes after a period of time. Someone in a previous post said a month. That sounds reasonable to me. If you get strikes in a month, one could argue you're doing something wrong. But if you get 5 in a YEAR, you should get punished? No.

But being locked out of standard AP for a week truly ruins the car for me for that week. I bought it specifically for AP. Not for any other reason. I drive 25 to 30k miles per year. Almost all on AP. That's why I bought it. OK, it's electric--great, but that's not why I bought it. It's REALLY fast--fun! But that's not why I bought it. It's cool--yup. But I only bought it for AP. And now they're going to take it away from me if I get caught changing the heating temperature after I turn on a podcast? Not ok!

100% this. The only reason I put up with all the Tesla quirks is because of how good AP is. If the Bolt EUV I owned before my current M3LR had Tesla's AP built in (supercruise was worthless for non freeways), I probably would have kept it. If there is ever a point where AP is severely degraded or restricted, I will buy my next vehicle, EV or ICE, using the CommaAI Open Pilot compabibility chart.

 

[Dewg]

Most hands free systems on the market use a camera on the steering wheel to monitor your face and eyes to make sure you're looking where you're supposed to be. How is the cabin camera different from this? We've seen the algorithms it uses to make sure you're paying attention:

 

[FordMME]

Most hands free systems on the market use a camera on the steering wheel to monitor your face and eyes to make sure you're looking where you're supposed to be. How is the cabin camera different from this? We've seen the algorithms it uses to make sure you're paying attention:

View attachment 1000822

I don't see a parameter for "wearing a mask alone in his own car."

 

[FordMME]

So how bad are the changes? Are they as bad this guy says?

If you want, ask and I shall answer. Driven with the update for about 6 hours now.

But let me give some feedback about the nags specifically. They are indeed worse but let me preface with it appears it’s mainly Autosteer (tied both Autosteer and FSD). Some have noticed no change. I have a 23 M3 LR. “Autosteer” or regular autopilot as I like to call it, nags you OD heavy. Yes it does use the cabin camera now to monitor where you’re looking. I cannot even look at my screen for 1 second now to change a song or setting. Before I could get away with like 3 seconds, look back at road, 3 seconds, look back at road. It’s kind of overkill. The new notification that comes up I do like though. It’s larger, not at the bottom, and really tells you hey, this is what YOU NEED TO DO. Whether it’s apply force to the wheel, turn it, look straight, etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/18l76vw

Because if true, that basically sounds unusable.

 

[Dewg]

I don't see a parameter for "dumbass wearing a mask alone in his own car."

If you look at the telemetry from the camera, there is no face mask detection. The algorithms are just looking at the eyes and general position of the head (looking forward, vs looking left/right/down). A face mask shouldn't interfere unless it's blocking the eyes.

 

[sublimejackman]

As per my post above 'Autopilot' has never implied a fully capable robotic driver; in my younger days (mid 1970s) I did a lot of flying in light aircraft and we were always aware that the autopilot would blithely fly us into a mountain.

My 2020 Prius Prime had adaptive radar cruise control and lane keep assist as standard (lane centring was optional and now it and ACC is standard on all Toyotas) and it worked quite happily in urban driving, and of course it would/will happily blow through stop signs and red lights. Almost all new cars have the equivalent of AP these days and, quite frankly, we'd all be better off if everyone used it. I don't see the need to penalize millions of drivers to prevent a handful of idiots from abusing a system that is now so prevalent. Take a look at 'Wham bam Tesla Cam' and other accident video YT channels and note how many accidents are caused by inattentive drivers who plow into stopped/slow vehicles without ever touching their brakes. You don't have to have a PHD in stats to realize that lane centring and adaptive CC will save lives.

Reality involves all people, including the ones that abuse things. Not just you. And, again, you can go look at the raw data and see how hundreds of people abuse this system in a way that causes a collision or death. Not even the raw data, just scroll back through this forum post and look at those who choose to defeat the nags.

(It's not a "handful of idiots" it's a large portion of the community. So much so that a cottage industry has popped up selling defeat devices)

Back to when I brought this up, my point was that I want Tesla to be a brand that I'm proud of. Actually working to bring in the future. Every time someone gets hurt, is pulled over drunk with AP running, an idiot gets in the backseat as the car drives away on the evening news, etc. the perception gets worse. Fewer people buy the car, fewer people want to be associated with it. More scrutiny is put on the company by regulators.

The idea is to get to robotaxis and electric cars, replacing humans and ICE. The path Tesla is on now is not a good one. It's driven by ego, fake it ‘til you make it and zealots who defend Tesla and the current CEO no matter how bad they act.

The point is moot anyway, the adults have spoken, and a recall has been issued. Hopefully this update restricts AP in a way that reduces collisions.

(Great, I'm glad you're a good pilot and didn't fly into a mountain)

 

[Tha_Ape]

Reality involves all people, Every time someone gets hurt, is pulled over drunk with AP running, an idiot gets in the backseat as the car drives away on the evening news, etc. the perception gets worse. Fewer people buy the car, fewer people want to be associated with it.

Yea, that's not how that works. Those videos have been out for years and it hasn't dissuaded buyers in the slightest.

I can't imagine anyone seeing a drunk driver get pulled out of a car and think "well im not buying THAT car".

 

[rlsd]

Maybe Tesla should create a autopilot training video for owners. The owner is required to watch the owner in front of the in-camera (to avoid cheating) then take a test. If the owner fails the test then he/she cannot use autopilot. The pre-owner can go to a Tesla sale office to train and take the test before buying the car too. The insurance companies probably like this. Liberty Mutual required my kid to take lessons and take the test before enrolling.

 

[fishy21]

Maybe Tesla should create a autopilot training video for owners. The owner is required to watch the owner in front of the in-camera (to avoid cheating) then take a test. If the owner fails the test then he/she cannot use autopilot. The pre-owner can go to a Tesla sale office to train and take the test before buying the car too. The insurance companies probably like this. Liberty Mutual required my kid to take lessons and take the test before enrolling.

I thought Tesla's software was so advance, that it would one day replace humans?

Lol. Just a plain old car company.

 

[fishy21]

Most hands free systems on the market use a camera on the steering wheel to monitor your face and eyes to make sure you're looking where you're supposed to be. How is the cabin camera different from this? We've seen the algorithms it uses to make sure you're paying attention:

Curious, when did Tesla become "hands free"?

 

[Dewg]

Curious, when did Tesla become "hands free"?

They're not. But many other L2+ systems from other MFGs that offer limited hands-off use a camera for facial/eye tracking. However, several here are covering their cabin cameras, and protesting its use. It's just how things are progressing in the industry, so something people are going to have to accept.

 

[rlsd]

I thought Tesla's software was so advance, that it would one day replace humans?

Lol. Just a plain old car company.

Dumb or reskless humans cannot be used with Tesla software.
Didn't you see some people trying to fill the Tesla battery with a gas station pump?
And super smart human like Sheldon Cooper cannot pass the driving test.

 

[KArnold]

Second, you lose Autosteer for seven days then your strikes reset. How awful it must be to actually have to operate a steering wheel for seven days. You still have Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

That brings up a thought. Previously if I struck out using FSDb, I could still use FSD just fine. Maybe y'all realized that already and I'm just catching on. FSD does most of what FSDb does so that wasn't a huge deal. Now we might have to actually drive our cars for a week if we strike out! <GASP>

Might be my new favorite 1st world problem!