I agree. It's a bit frustrating trying to navigate all the snide and sarcastic remarks. We know that people can park without park sensors. But modern cars are expected to offer driver assistance features. Especially at Tesla's pricepoint. Ultrasonic parking sensors have been around for decades and is cheap technology. I'm astonished that Tesla removed it without anything to replace it. Just promises of 'Tesla Vision'...
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla replacing ultrasonic sensors with Tesla Vision
- Thread starter diplomat33
- Start date
scottf200
Well-Known Member
... because it sometimes makes passengers nauseous or they get tired and annoyed when their head/body is being jerked forward.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree with the above, which is why I put green's tweet directly instead of linking one of the dozens of articles out there that embellishes things and put it as if that update will have it user facing for sure. I said as much in my earlier response:
Huh? Why because they had a hood ornament and curb feelers? Most cars back in the day you could hardly see the end of the hood lol. Maybe Tesla can bring back the hood ornament!
MrBadger
Badger out
Sorry, but that sounds like driver issue to me. I see this a lot from comments some drivers seem to be using the accelerator incorrectly.
You do not drive a car full accelerator then full brake with no bit in between, but this is how some must be driving with single peddle. The only difference is that the accelerator and most of the braking is combined into the single pedal function. In the same way that if you don’t want full acceleration you don’t press accelerator to the floor, if you don’t want full braking you don’t lift as hard.
It’s not a huge adjustment. It was one of the concerns that my wife had when we got ours, but it was mastered in a few minutes of braking. Braking is as smooth as silk. It’s like being driven by a chauffeur with years of experience.
Teslas mostly ‘single pedal’ driving is really well balanced. They may have their faults, but this isn’t one of them.
Zilla91
Active Member
No, because they were much smaller and the view out of the window was much better.
Depends on what part of the world you are talking about. In the UK / Europe I agree that the majority of cars had large areas of glass with small pillars and frames.
Meeting crash test requirements and maybe some 'form over function' has certainly reduced visibility in many cases.
In the US cars and trucks have obviously tended to be much bigger.
FloridaJohn
Member
The big change was from increased crash protection. If you remember driving the older cars, you could roll down the window and rest your arm on the window sill, the bottom of window was below shoulder level. Now, modern cars have a higher sill, at around shoulder level, that makes it uncomfortable to rest your arm on the sill.
This was done to protect the occupants from side collisions and has helped to reduce fatalities from accidents, but it did make visibility near the car worse. This led to the addition of cameras and ultrasonic sensors to give the driver more information while maneuvering in close quarters.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
It could be a statuette of Elon with his arms spread a la Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic!
Agree- many cars of old had the long, boxy hoods with poorer sight lines. Even today many trucks and SUVs are similar. I’ve never driven any of the other models but my MY has very good sight lines.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
One thing that makes me concerned for Tesla removing the sensors is how FSD seems to have trouble estimating when to stop for stop signs. Often it will brake quite forcefully 20 -30 feet before the sign then slowly creep up to the line. If it can’t accurately gauge that, how is it going to be accurate enough for parking?
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Of course. Certainly I and most understand this. I try to be pretty cognizant of this when I have passengers. (also goes along with slowing nicely for corners).
Many people don't seem to have the muscle and foot control to do this smoothly. As well some passengers are very sensitive to being jostled around. I think you are disregarding things and just using your own personal experience. I was simply stating something that is very common and what you read about from.
Tesla also has the driving mode of chill for a reason. Manual: "Touch Controls > Pedals & Steering > Acceleration to choose a preferred acceleration mode: Chill limits acceleration for a slightly smoother and gentler ride."
Ultrasonics have nothing to do with estimating the distance to a Stop sign.
Ultrasonics are for very close objects less than a few feet apart, like a curb or a wall or a vehicle in the next lane close to you.
Spot on. I can come to perfect smooth stop in almost all situations without having to jerk by removing the foot abruptly from the Go pedal. In fact I have driven many trips without touching the brakes at all, and only by controlling the Go pedal.
You just have to unlearn ICE driving and resist the urge to remove your foot from the Go pedal and learn to gently release it to come to a smooth stop. I probably use the brake pedal in my Tesla less than 10% of the time I would use in an ICE car. And if the regen is stronger, I can get the brake pedal application to only pure emergency situations (like someone cutting you off).
I don’t think they were saying that USS is used for stop signs. I think the point was that if the camera system has trouble judging a large distance to a stop sign, how would they accurately judge even smaller distances using the cameras? I can understand that logic, but have hope that they will figure it out. It’s just a matter of when.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
The question I have is what is being displayed visually in this scenario. When the car comes to a near stop 30 feet from the stop sign, does the visualization show the car at the stop line/sign? Or does the visualization show the car some distance away from the stop line/sign?
I'm wondering if this is more of a mapping issue - where the map the car has, in conjunction with GPS shows there is a stop sign closer than it really is.
The reason I bring this up is a logical one. If the cameras could not handle distance properly, in this case 30 feet off from where the real marker is, then wouldn't it be slamming into cars all over the place, as it can't judge distance to cars in front of it?
It's a planning issue. I have an intersection like this and about 50% of the time the car stops too early. Some times it doesn't actually stop early, but slows way down and crawls to the stop sign (no line on the road) and sometimes it does the right thing. It's not a visualization problem. It's planning. Some FSDb version are better than others, but it's been an issue for a while.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If it is like most things, the bit that controls the stop is hand coded. The perception is pretty much almost all NN based, but the other planning parts are still fairly rough because it is still hand coded.
TarmacSurfer
Member
I predict this will not go well. Musk is obsessed with how our brains receive and process information as the basis of replicating it, thereby creating AI. The inherent flaw in this is that our sensory inputs are (as good as they are) limited. Driving in low-visibility conditions is dangerous. Building a self-driving platform with the same inputs (visual information) and similar processing will have the same limitations. Ultrasonic sensors and RADAR exceed the capabilities of human sensory perceptions and as such, should automatically provide an advantage. I’m guessing this also has something to do with Tesla engineers having a hard time prioritizing which inputs (visual or USS) in the event of a conflict, so they’re going “back to basics” in an attempt to get it right. Maybe not the worst idea, but other automakers (Mercedes in particular) are starting to overtake Tesla in the autonomous driving arena by attacking that problem head-on , much as it pains me to say it.
Losing Andrej Karpathy earlier this year didn’t help Tesla’s efforts either.
I think Tesla is going to be struggling with FSD for quite a while and will have some serious issues with nighttime and low-visibility (fog, snowy, rainy) operations. Time will tell.
Losing Andrej Karpathy earlier this year didn’t help Tesla’s efforts either.
I think Tesla is going to be struggling with FSD for quite a while and will have some serious issues with nighttime and low-visibility (fog, snowy, rainy) operations. Time will tell.
Andrej Karpathy speaking about this is what gave me confidence in the Tesla Vision and removal of uss. He is very much for full tesla vision and sees uss as 'bloat' and introduction of a lot of noise and errors. If anything he was one of the drivers to push tesla vision and cut uss from the way he talks about it.
He also seems to have very high praise for tesla and his work there. The reason he gives for leaving is that he does want to continue his work, and at tesla, he became an administrator and director (management). He did say he could easily go back to tesla at some point. There was no hint of negativity.
My fingers are crossed that the next update gives us back close quarters parking reference and improved self driving with less errors.
Similar threads
