Why? what is wrong if only a 500 truck can make it? After all it is over the mountain. So no expectation and no harm done if the shorter range truck cannot handle it.
Because it doesn't sell very well when a 300 mile truck can't drive 250 miles.
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Why? what is wrong if only a 500 truck can make it? After all it is over the mountain. So no expectation and no harm done if the shorter range truck cannot handle it.
It's marketed as a truck that has 300 mile range fully loaded. If it can't make a 240 mile trek, even one climbing the Sierra Nevadas, that will not look good on the 300 mile claim. I would become a claim that has lots of caveats on it, like "only good when road is flat and weather is fair." Likewise the 500 mile truck had better make a 400 mile trip, even one that climbs to the Continental Divide. Ever skeptic out there will be posing less then 300 or less then 500 routes that the trucks won't be able to do.Why? what is wrong if only a 500 truck can make it? After all it is over the mountain. So no expectation and no harm done if the shorter range truck cannot handle it.
You are 100% wrong. The range of S, or X or 3 or the Semi is based on a flat terrain , decent weather conditions and 65mph speed. And the expectation is, elevation, temperature, wind and driving speed will all impact the range - positively or negativelyIt's marketed as a truck that has 300 mile range fully loaded. If it can't make a 240 mile trek, even one climbing the Sierra Nevadas, that will not look good on the 300 mile claim. I would become a claim that has lots of caveats on it, like "only good when road is flat and weather is fair." Likewise the 500 mile truck had better make a 400 mile trip, even one that climbs to the Continental Divide. Ever skeptic out there will be posing less then 300 or less then 500 routes that the trucks won't be able to do.
BTW, it is significant that Tesla is marketing these trucks by range, not battery capacity. So it will be Tesla's responsibility to pack enough kWh in these trucks to deliver nameplate range. It's different marketing a vehicle by battery capacity. Sure my S has 85 kWh, but how much range is that? Well it depends. This puts the burden on the buyer to figure out what range they think it will really deliver. I think Tesla has recognized that they need to turn this around and put the burden back on itself to deliver the range under all reasonable conditions.
Because it doesn't sell very well when a 300 mile truck can't drive 250 miles.
so the 300 may be able to squeak it out.
Yes, I understand that. I drive a Model S. But it is marketed as an 85, not a 265. When you actually name a vehicle in reference to its range, not its capacity, you are making a pretty strong claim. Yes, customers will have some tolerance for extreme conditions that interfere with range. But I do think Tesla is setting very high expectations here, and truckers are going to need very high reliability.You are 100% wrong. The range of S, or X or 3 or the Semi is based on a flat terrain , decent weather conditions and 65mph speed. And the expectation is, elevation, temperature, wind and driving speed will all impact the range - positively or negatively
So what next? the 300 Semi should guarantee a 300 mile range at full load at -30F, going up a mountain at 75 mph?
Keep in mind that Donner Summit has to be crossed at 7239 feet on the trip on I-80 from Sparks to Fremont (7227 feet traveling eastbound). Interstate 80 in California - Wikipedia
You only took elevation into consideration. If you take subzero temps with a little headwind. No way it can make that trip.
Cold weather has less of a percentage impact on an 80 thousand pound tractor trailer than an aerodynamic passenger car.Wait till someone finds out their 500 mile range is actually 250 or less in the winter.
Batteries hold less energy in very cold weather, and air is denser as temps drop. Both of these have the same cumulative effect on a Semi as much as a car.
i wouldn't be surprised if a 500 mile truck only can only do 350 in cold weather climbing over the mountains. And if you add ice and snow on the ground, that adds more rolling resistance. 350 is a reasonable bet on subzero temps.
From the TMCer who talked to them, they are both 300 mile versions. I'm guessing for more/ deeper cycles.Do we know if the two prototype Semi have their full stated battery pack sizes or could they be using a smaller pack for testing purposes?
This is essentially what I was suggesting in my last post.One thing about the semi I keep thinking about is the idea of a million mile guarantee with 500 mile range. This is not possible in the current EV paradigm where batteries degrade, range is hugely impacted by weather and elevations. So it got me thinking how? One easy way would be to have a larger battery where capacity is dynamically unlocked based on need. Let's assume there was a breakthrough on NMC cells to improve energy density that allows 5000 cycles with less then 10% degradation. So the pack size would be oversized by 15% which would allow for degradation, anti-brick and a small reserve "tank" past 0%. Based on the trip and elevation, extra capacity could be dynamically unlocked. When the vehicle knows exactly where you are going and the schedule, it can smartly allow access to extra range that will eventually degrade to the point where it's no longer available, but would be available for the first few years on an as needed basis. Even ice vehicles degrade and have limitations on weather. The goal here would be reliability and consistency where it counts for semi owners. Having a slightly larger battery wouldn't cost much more and might just be required to meet the other guarantees and provide a great experience for customers.
This is essentially what I was suggesting in my last post.
Say you have 1MWh in the physical battery, but it is dynamically "unlocked" only to allow 500 physical miles. Perhaps in ideal conditions only 1.2 kWh/mile is needed. That is only 60% of the pack is needed. So the software knows to keep the SOC within 20% to 80%. The driver only sees and has access to the middle 60%. But suppose that under extreme conditions (weather and grade), 1.8 kWh/mile is needed. This unlock the middle 90% of the battery and the software holds SOC between 5% and 95%.
In all cases, the driver is limited to 500 physical miles but the fraction of the battery dynamically unlocked varies from about 60% to 90% of original 1MWh capacity. This could be why Tesla spoke of a 2kWh/mile upper bound. This may be sufficient for 99% of all driving conditions, but Tesla will want fairly strong control over depth of cycling to minimize abuse to the battery. Tesla can't put a 1 million mile warranty out there and allow drivers to abuse packs. They've got a software layer between the driver and the pack.
One thing about the semi I keep thinking about is the idea of a million mile guarantee with 500 mile range. This is not possible in the current EV paradigm where batteries degrade, range is hugely impacted by weather and elevations. So it got me thinking how? One easy way would be to have a larger battery where capacity is dynamically unlocked based on need. Let's assume there was a breakthrough on NMC cells to improve energy density that allows 5000 cycles with less then 10% degradation. So the pack size would be oversized by 15% which would allow for degradation, anti-brick and a small reserve "tank" past 0%. Based on the trip and elevation, extra capacity could be dynamically unlocked. When the vehicle knows exactly where you are going and the schedule, it can smartly allow access to extra range that will eventually degrade to the point where it's no longer available, but would be available for the first few years on an as needed basis. Even ice vehicles degrade and have limitations on weather. The goal here would be reliability and consistency where it counts for semi owners. Having a slightly larger battery wouldn't cost much more and might just be required to meet the other guarantees and provide a great experience for customers.
Isn't it a one million mile breakdown guarantee as opposed to a part failure/ wear warranty?
If Telsa can use 80% capacity packs for Grid applications, then replacing packs (for nominal fee) might be more cost effective than over sizing the pack for lifetime degradation.
Routes will be analyzed before tractor sales to enure customer happiness and charging infrastructure (including weather). I do not think this level of dynamic routing (different grades) will be in play for a while.