Tesla Supercharger network

[dhanson865]

There is no doubt that Tesla's network is superior, but there is obviously an argument: Build-Out of EV Fast Chargers Continues, Thanks to Nissan and BMW | PluginCars.com

That's a fluff piece with precious few details. What charger hardware will they use? How much will they make me pay to use it? When will the installs be completed?

I am happy to see my state as one of the 19 states they list but I'll reserve judgment until they put one within 20 miles of my house (that's smack in a high population density section of a 1 million plus population metro area) or at least somewhere that doesn't currently have L2 coverage.

There are 4 Nissan dealers (3 major, 1 minor) in that range and they all have a single L2, nothing else. I live next to one and Its so inconvenient to charge there I'd never bother unless I somehow stupidly ran down to less than 1 mile range left right in front of the dealer and then only if during business hours (they lock the gates at night).

There is a Blink CHAdeMO within that range but it's $7 a session flat fee meaning I'd have to sit there until my car was fully charged to make it anything less than highway robbery and I'd want to show up to it with a low charge to start. $7 a shot is an OK price for a Model S with a 60 kWh or better battery. It's highway robbery for a Nissan Leaf with a degraded battery that might hold 16 or 17 usable kWh (down from 21.4 at new).

There is not a CHAdeMO on I-75 north of town.

There is not a CHAdeMO on I-40 east of town.

There is not a CHAdeMO near the airport south of town. (Near Alcoa/Maryville)

There is not a CHAdeMO in or around Sevierville/Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg (high tourism, and very nearly an L2 desert).

So yeah if they put one anywhere inside my 20 mile radius and/or one in any of the popular routes that don't even have decent L2 chargers then I'll give them credit for changing the landscape around here.

If they do that and somehow make it cheaper than the ripoff that is a flat fee Blink CHAdeMO then I might actually use it or at least not avoid it like the plague.

Seriously I hope some day down the road to see even 2 or 4 stall superchargers peppered all around my home town so I can take a Model 3 or whatever around my home state like I don't care about range limitations.

I'm betting that Tesla will make that happen before anyone else does, even if they don't do it as liberally as I'm looking forward to.

 

[David99]

NRG is actually pretty successful. They have more locations than Tesla. Only two, sometimes 4 chargers per station, and not placed for long distance traveling, but nevertheless, they do have a solid and reliable network of 50 kW chargers. They have saved me many times when there was no Supercharger near.

 

[techmaven]

No one else has even started to build their charging networks to support long distance EVs. There isn't a non-Tesla standard that supports > 200 amp charging.

There is a reality of what a realistic long distance BEV charging network must be, no matter the plug standard. It is clear that Tesla thought about it and embarked on turning a realistic vision into reality. No one else has done this. CHAdeMO remains a waste of money, chosen more as an anti-competitive measure than promote EVs. The fact that SAE standardized the CCS plug after Tesla shipped the Model S on purpose, and managed to fail to provide enough amperage to support long distance BEVs demonstrates where the other automakers are with BEVs. The fact that it's now 2016 and the next rev still isn't standardized further attests to the lack of vision and commitment from the other automakers.

It is complete lunacy to continue to install 50 kW DC EVSE's.

 

[dhanson865]

NRG is actually pretty successful. They have more locations than Tesla. Only two, sometimes 4 chargers per station, and not placed for long distance traveling, but nevertheless, they do have a solid and reliable network of 50 kW chargers. They have saved me many times when there was no Supercharger near.

Sounds good, closest one to my house is 90 miles away in one direction with the other 7 points on a 8 point compass being more like hundreds or thousands of miles away.

Closest supercharger to my house is less than 10 miles away (8 stalls). With 4 more roughly N, W, E, and Sw of me and reasonably close compared to other networks. Each having 6, 6, 8, 6 stalls.

Yeah, charging networks. Only Tesla is doing it with consistently broad distribution. Sure there are supercharger voids but no one else comes close to covering the US like they do.

 

[TexasEV]

NRG is actually pretty successful. They have more locations than Tesla. Only two, sometimes 4 chargers per station, and not placed for long distance traveling, but nevertheless, they do have a solid and reliable network of 50 kW chargers. They have saved me many times when there was no Supercharger near.

In Texas they have only 1 charger per station and I've never gotten close to 50kW from it, even when as low as 20% SOC.

 

[Dave EV]

There is no doubt that Tesla's network is superior, but there is obviously an argument: Build-Out of EV Fast Chargers Continues, Thanks to Nissan and BMW | PluginCars.com

I haven't seen any charging stations in San Diego County installed in quite some time. I'd love to see a list of new charging stations installed anywhere, especially if it's been paid for by Nissan and/or BMW.

NRG is actually pretty successful. They have more locations than Tesla. Only two, sometimes 4 chargers per station, and not placed for long distance traveling, but nevertheless, they do have a solid and reliable network of 50 kW chargers. They have saved me many times when there was no Supercharger near.

NRG / EVgo does have a decent network. And it's great that they typically have 2 CHAdeMO/Combo QC stations (and a lonely L2 station, but is often not working, for some reason).

But so many of them are located in malls in prime parking locations that ICEing remains a problem. And unless you commit to paying $15/mo to subscribe, their a-la-carte QC prices are ridiculous at $5/session + $0.20 / minute.

 

[miimura]

NRG / EVgo does have a decent network. And it's great that they typically have 2 CHAdeMO/Combo QC stations (and a lonely L2 station, but is often not working, for some reason).

But so many of them are located in malls in prime parking locations that ICEing remains a problem. And unless you commit to paying $15/mo to subscribe, their a-la-carte QC prices are ridiculous at $5/session + $0.20 / minute.

If you need it to get to your destination and they are in a useful location, I find the pricing fair at about 15 cents/mile ($10.95/(44kW*0.5h/0.3kWh/mi)). That's what my previous gas car used to cost me. Also, you have to figure that the miles you charged at home are a lot cheaper than that, so the trip average cost is much lower.

 

[Dave EV]

If you need it to get to your destination and they are in a useful location, I find the pricing fair at about 15 cents/mile ($10.95/(44kW*0.5h/0.3kWh/mi)). That's what my previous gas car used to cost me. Also, you have to figure that the miles you charged at home are a lot cheaper than that, so the trip average cost is much lower.

Good point - I don't yet have a Tesla (I have a LEAF) and a LEAF will only pick up about 15 kWh in 30 minutes which raises the price 3X (and often you really only want 10-15 minutes to get you home) In a Tesla where you can pull max power for the entire session the a-la-carte rates are reasonable.

 

[David99]

In Texas they have only 1 charger per station and I've never gotten close to 50kW from it, even when as low as 20% SOC.

Unlike Supercharger, the ChaDeMO adapter is limited by Amps. The power is lower in the beginning as the voltage is lower. As the voltage increases, while the Amps stay the same, the overall power goes up. So the power curve is opposite of a typical Supercharger. I usually get to 48 kW.

No doubt, no one has a network that is as well designed and fast as Tesla's Superchargers, but it's not like there is nothing else. In the greater Los Angeles area, there is actually a quite a few of them and for many EVs that do need to charge during the day (which is every other EV except the Model S) having these in areas where lots of traffic is happening makes perfect sense. No other EV makes sense for long distance traveling, even if there was a charger every 40 miles. It's just nuts stopping every 45 minutes.

 

[miimura]

Good point - I don't yet have a Tesla (I have a LEAF) and a LEAF will only pick up about 15 kWh in 30 minutes which raises the price 3X (and often you really only want 10-15 minutes to get you home) In a Tesla where you can pull max power for the entire session the a-la-carte rates are reasonable.

Yes, my situation is a little different than yours. I have a RAV4 EV with Jdemo and I can pull 125 amps for all 30 minutes given a low-ish SOC. However, now that I think about it, my voltage is a little lower, so I would only get about 19kWh in 30 minutes. That's still only 17c/mile. If you're going to pay that per session fee, you might as well take all 30 minutes and hope you have enough energy to make it to your destination or the next stop. Otherwise you have to pay the session fee again. If you're going on a longer trip and will charge 6 times in one month, you will save money signing up for the monthly fee and paying the ETF. Otherwise the break-even is more than 2 sessions per month.

 

[Cottonwood]

I do agree that the rate of Supercharger installs seems to be slowing down, but Champaign is a good example of a site that has been in progress for a while, but has not been observed because of its relatively remote location compared to many Tesla owners.

See Supercharger - Champaign, IL - Page 6 for some recent pictures.

I bet that Terra Haute, IN is in a similar state of Construction, but no one has found it yet.

 

[RiverBrick]

More construction in Germany. Does any other country have more Superchargers per Model S?

 

[dhanson865]

More construction in Germany. Does any other country have more Superchargers per Model S?

Germany isn't an island. People from other countries can drive there with a Model S or Model X.

Countries drivable to/from Germany include

Spain
France
UK/GB/England
Belgium
Netherlands
Denmark
Norway
Sweden
Slovenia
Croatia

soon to be added

Czeck and Poland that will have to travel through Germany to get elsewhere in EU.

Once easterun european countries get added Germany will be a major route into Western European countries.

 

[Johann Koeber]

More construction in Germany. Does any other country have more Superchargers per Model S?

Just my unscientific observation:

The use of the SC network in Germany is about 50:50, Germans : non Germans.

The most active I see are the people from Holland and Norway, closely followed by the Danes.

So far, oftentimes I was the only car charging at one of 6-8 SC stalls. Only once in 2 years time have I rolled in to a SC and occupied the very last available plug. And this was after the Hannover trade show with everyone heading home.

Disclosure: I travel all of Germany and Austria, covered over 139.000 km in less than 2 years - obviously lots of SC visits.

 

[RiverBrick]

Germany isn't an island. People from other countries can drive there with a Model S or Model X...

The forum members know geography. If the high density of Superchargers was due to visitors, you would expect to see relatively more infrastructure in France.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The forum members know geography. If the high density of Superchargers was due to visitors, you would expect to see relatively more infrastructure in France.

Maybe only the French ski in the French Alps.

Most likely influences to the high German density would be Elon Musk's ego, impending EU charger rules, and a preemptive strike against German protectionism.

 

[RiverBrick]

...

Disclosure: I travel all of Germany and Austria, covered over 139.000 km in less than 2 years - obviously lots of SC visits.

Thanks for your input. And also thanks for your early and continued support of Tesla Motors which has helped finance the Supercharger network. (I also thank the other members reading this.

 

[mmccord]

More construction in Germany. Does any other country have more Superchargers per Model S?

I think Australia has 1 SC per 6 cars or so.

 

[dhanson865]

The forum members know geography. If the high density of Superchargers was due to visitors, you would expect to see relatively more infrastructure in France.

France doesn't have an autobahn with extremely high speed limits. It takes more energy to drive fast therefore you need more superchargers.

Also France has less solar PV than Germany.

Also France is on one edge of Europe, it is a connector country, but it isn't central Europe.

Imagine driving from London to Moscow (or the shorter trip to Minsk). You'll use a supercharger in France (Calais Supercharger) but you'll use multiple in Germany (Moers, Kamen, Lauenau, Hohenwarsleben, Blankenfelde-Mahlow), then Poland, then Belarus, and if going all the way then Russia.

Now try Oslo to Milan. EV Trip Planner , 7 superchargers in Germany used, 0 in France.

Copenhagen to Paris, 3 super chargers in Germany used, 2 in France. EV Trip Planner

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Tesla customers in Norway and Sweden that would like to have access to Europe by road. Pretty much any route out of Scandinavia into the rest of Europe will take them through Germany.

You have to assume there will be Tesla customers in eastern Europe in the coming years. They'll want access to western Europe.

There are plenty of reasons Tesla put tons of superchargers in Germany. Not all of them are about the amount of current customers, some are about forward planning.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Superchargers are for traveling, not locals, hence you will have more chargers in high traffic corridors.