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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
It's on my shelf. I found it helpful.He must've read the chapter in my book that describes bullish pennant formations.
Etna
Member
FWIW the text below the date means "coming soon, please look forward to it". So it gives no hint.
If you zoom in enough you can make anything look huge!
I asked a guy at my favorite dumpling restaurant what this translates to, and he said:
"No more numerology in this thread or you will be banned."
Don't forget Renault also has a Tesla Killer
Twizy - Renault Group
#RenaultEWAYS To get around the city differently, the solution is called Renault Twizy! With 1 or 2 people, this electric quadricycle is ideal for urban mobility.
www.renaultgroup.com
Could it be "Go Giga" means "Go Giga Austin" and Austin starts production on 12/10?
lafrisbee
Active Member
Government as a business. That's all the EV Rebate is. I figured it out.
It bothered me that the Rebate/money is so haphazardly given. It's damn near stupid it is such an uncomplicated device.
So first I looked at why the Government is "giving money" so people will by an EV.
I got it. The Government wants EV's made within a geographic border that they can control for the purposes of taxation. All the crap about wanting to combat Global Warming is just Bull methane.
Now, I will give this to the Governments. They are not giving the money directly to the Private Sector Entities. We all know how that goes/ends. So I do like that the Government understands that. The Government needs the EV's made within their borders for the sake of "security...yeah a "secure" tax base.
This matches up with my pitiful understanding of why Governments give subsidies to big oil. The amount they pay in subsidies is probably more than recovered through taxation when the books are added up.
Same deal with EV manufacturing. It's all dollars and euros to the current business of Government.
I love that the EV rebate/incentive is shared with the buyer. And then only if an actual EV is made and sold.
I do not like that there is no buy back of the gas guzzlers like my 2008 Dodge Bighorn Ram Pick-up.
I Know I know. I am one stupid ant because I jsut stated why the EV incentive is like it is...but that provides another layer of support to what is the reason the government is doing an EV Rebate. Keeping its manufacturing tax Base.
It bothered me that the Rebate/money is so haphazardly given. It's damn near stupid it is such an uncomplicated device.
So first I looked at why the Government is "giving money" so people will by an EV.
I got it. The Government wants EV's made within a geographic border that they can control for the purposes of taxation. All the crap about wanting to combat Global Warming is just Bull methane.
Now, I will give this to the Governments. They are not giving the money directly to the Private Sector Entities. We all know how that goes/ends. So I do like that the Government understands that. The Government needs the EV's made within their borders for the sake of "security...yeah a "secure" tax base.
This matches up with my pitiful understanding of why Governments give subsidies to big oil. The amount they pay in subsidies is probably more than recovered through taxation when the books are added up.
Same deal with EV manufacturing. It's all dollars and euros to the current business of Government.
I love that the EV rebate/incentive is shared with the buyer. And then only if an actual EV is made and sold.
I do not like that there is no buy back of the gas guzzlers like my 2008 Dodge Bighorn Ram Pick-up.
I Know I know. I am one stupid ant because I jsut stated why the EV incentive is like it is...but that provides another layer of support to what is the reason the government is doing an EV Rebate. Keeping its manufacturing tax Base.
month月 day日 — true dat, I remember something from my years in Japan.
Hopefully didn't miss this being posted during my scrolling efforts today:
Teslarati article stating plaid charges about 20% faster than 2021 model s long range at supercharger
Teslarati article stating plaid charges about 20% faster than 2021 model s long range at supercharger
Tampa Bay Times - today: Pinellas County transit board approves buying 60 electric buses
Excerpt:
The board of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority voted unanimously on Wednesday to authorize the purchase of 60 zero-emission electric buses over a five-year period, with the first buses expected to hit the road in early 2024.
Excerpt:
The board of the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority voted unanimously on Wednesday to authorize the purchase of 60 zero-emission electric buses over a five-year period, with the first buses expected to hit the road in early 2024.
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
If anything noteworthy (worth hyping) is happening for Tesla China on 12/10 it would have to be that. Elon has already told us they expect to be shipping that vehicle in 2023 (+/- steering wheel), so revealing it a year before production makes sense. And if it truly is a smaller/cheaper version of 3/Y, with high parts homology, we can expect them to be able to ramp it very quickly, just like Y. The thing will have eleventy billion pre-orders in 24 hours.
RobDickinson
Active Member
A - doesn't directly involve tesla
B - Current status is good so a delay means they carry on
I did mention it on this thread at the time that I thought many people were overestimating the actual October Production number as the Oct Wholesale number included an export ship full of cars made in September (The ship that left China in early October which was loaded while the factory was closed for holiday from Oct 1st).
Agree with you. If I remember my eco101 a positive demand shock is met with a price increase in the short term and a supply increase over the medium term.
Even though every EV being produced now is being sold immediately, the subsidy will increase the margins of ev sellers - who will then be able to pay more for EV parts to build the vehicles - and so on and so forth.
The result is that companies building non-EV widgets will look at those juicy EV widget prices and start researching/producing.
Tesla might be running at full speed to transition to EV but the entire world isn't - this is where subsidies help (Tesla just gets to bank the extra profits).
The flaw in the alternative thinking is assuming the supply response is capped, which it isn't. It just gets less and less efficient for every extra $ spent on front loading the transition.
@TheTalkingMule i disagreed to your post for the above reasons.
jhm
Well-Known Member
You make some good points about a wider supply chain. But at this point I have lost patients with these footdraggers. To hit net zero in 2050, we need all automakers to shut down all ICE production over the next five years. We simply don't have time to nurse OEMs along so that the can continue to build ICE vehicles for the next ten years.
This is a pre-bail out. The ICE production lines will be worthless in 5 years without the EV incentives. What the EV incentives really do is help legacy auto to sell enough mediocre EV product to cover the CAFE standards. That is, for every ICE vehicle they sell, they will have to buy reg credits from the likes of Tesla or create them by making and selling EVs. So any EV incentive out there makes the reg credits cheaper to buy or create. The net results is that legacy automakers will have an implicit subsidy for the regulatory cost of selling ICE. This is required at just the time ICE is becoming unpopular. To keep legacy automakers afloat with BAU ICE, the need relief from the cost of CAFE and other reg credits because their ICE product will not fetch the profitable price it once had.
The net impact of this is that it can stretch out ICE production longer than the market alone would have killed of ICE sales. There is a basic misdirection going on. The politicians are pointing to an increase in EV sales as a measure of success against climate change. But in reality it is the decline of ICE sales that truly slows climate change. That decline in ICE sales began back in 2018, and it is a looming political crisis if ICE production shuts down too quickly as EVs become more compelling. So BBB and earlier Green New Deal were trying to thread the needle which is how look like government is responding assertively to climate change while protecting and replacing jobs that that will be lost in rapid decarbonization of the national economy. It is be no means an easy problem to solve. But lets be clear what is at stake. For the sake of the climate, ICE manufacturing jobs must be destroyed and will be lost over the next 5 to 8 years. Right now, Tesla looks more like the destroyer of jobs, rather than the champion of climate action.
Yes. This tends to encourage the seller to increase supply (building factories, new lines, more shifts etc.). In the case of EVs, demand looks to be inelastic, at least for Tesla and a few others. Tesla is already increasing supply as fast as possible, so they will tend to soak up most of the subsidy in the form of higher margins. Other suppliers are more lukewarm on expanding supply (because they don't make large profits) and this gives them the impetus to do so.
Ending ALL subsidies would be preferable, but as long as we subsidize fossil fuels, this credit will help the transition. Note that the demand curve doesn't shift. This is the generic example. With current EV demand, the Demand curve will be closer to horizontal than a 45 degree angle.
Attachments
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
From Interactive Investors, one of the bigger RETAIL brokers/providers in UK. Not sure how it compares to USA/EU/RoW retail - but shows FUD only goes so far
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