Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Waiting4M3]

I'm starting to feel a little better about Europe the last few days

https://twitter.com/x/status/1804231318911225894

 

[Tronguy]

1. It's all the same planet. If they can build roofs to last hundreds of years in Europe, so can we if we choose to.
2. There is no income limit for the federal solar tax credit. However, you need a large enough taxable income to claim the full credit. If you owe less in taxes than what your credit is worth, you can roll over the remaining credit to future tax years.
3. The person I was referring to has a $200/month electric bill which the $18k, 10kW system would cover. I wasn't talking about "some of us", I was addressing someone specifically.

Overall, your reply was pretty meaningless.

Be careful about @Snerruc. He's been having fun stating that, at 15 years from being bought, solar panels are "worthless".

Near as I can tell he's applying a tactic used by businesses to reduce the value of capital goods over time, called "depreciation". Which is fine for businesses that helps them keep running newer, more capable versions of Big Machines or even non-big machines that wear out over time.

But, as far as I know, individuals not filing business tax returns don't and can't use depreciation. And the whole idea, applied to household solar panels that are, inherently, Very Reliable, doesn't make sense. From a monetary point of view, the point of solar panels is zeroing out (or better) the costs of buying electricity. Electricity in that area is around $0.16/kW-hr, about the same as NJ. A typical home spends ~$250/month paying for electricity; that's about $3,000 a year. Cost of a reasonable solar panel system is around $15k, so that's a 5-year payback. Throw in the Federal Tax Credit and that shaves a year or two off of that. And, after the install, that's year after year after year, ad infinitum, of Not Paying For Electricity.

I happen to have solar panels that've lasted 15 years sans defect; I suspect that's typical, knowing the technology involved. Unless @Snerruc's place is surrounded by trees (possible), I fail to see what his problem is.

And that's enough on this topic for a non-solar thread on TMC.

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

Need to go with this to some sort of solar sub-forum.

You are in Scotland and the other poster who replied is from Italy. This is perhaps much different from the US of A.

Estimate 30-40 kWh full solar system installed with battery backup such as this one: 31kWh This is 20K for the system 5K for install. 30% rebate.
Estimate 31 kWh from Tesla with PW3 and install. It will likely be ~60K+ to get the same outputs.

We were talking batteries not total solar installs. All powerwalls In UK and EU are installed by independents.

 

[aubreymcfato]

I'm starting to feel a little better about Europe the last few days

https://twitter.com/x/status/1804231318911225894

Mind you, it's just for Italy and will last end of Q2/start of Q3 tops. The whole fund for incentives was enough for 20-22k EVs total, so question is how many of those sales are Tesla. Still, it seems likely we'll have a record quarter for Italy. Next week will be interesting.

 

[elasalle]

Mind you, it's just for Italy and will last end of Q2/start of Q3 tops. The whole fund for incentives was enough for 20-22k EVs total, so question is how many of those sales are Tesla. Still, it seems likely we'll have a record quarter for Italy. Next week will be interesting.

maybe Elon calls buddy/admirer Meloni direct for the next round of funds

I think Meloni also pulled out of the China Beltroad initiatives? How are China EV's doing in Italy?

 

[Waiting4M3]

Mind you, it's just for Italy and will last end of Q2/start of Q3 tops. The whole fund for incentives was enough for 20-22k EVs total, so question is how many of those sales are Tesla. Still, it seems likely we'll have a record quarter for Italy. Next week will be interesting.

I'm also pleasantly surprised by the 5 daily reporting countries trend on ev-evs.com the last few days, I didn't think Tesla had in them to do an EOQ push given the lower than usual level of export from China in May

 

[GatorMeat]

Be careful about @Snerruc. He's been having fun stating that, at 15 years from being bought, solar panels are "worthless".

Near as I can tell he's applying a tactic used by businesses to reduce the value of capital goods over time, called "depreciation". Which is fine for businesses that helps them keep running newer, more capable versions of Big Machines or even non-big machines that wear out over time.

But, as far as I know, individuals not filing business tax returns don't and can't use depreciation. And the whole idea, applied to household solar panels that are, inherently, Very Reliable, doesn't make sense. From a monetary point of view, the point of solar panels is zeroing out (or better) the costs of buying electricity. Electricity in that area is around $0.16/kW-hr, about the same as NJ. A typical home spends ~$250/month paying for electricity; that's about $3,000 a year. Cost of a reasonable solar panel system is around $15k, so that's a 5-year payback. Throw in the Federal Tax Credit and that shaves a year or two off of that. And, after the install, that's year after year after year, ad infinitum, of Not Paying For Electricity.

I happen to have solar panels that've lasted 15 years sans defect; I suspect that's typical, knowing the technology involved. Unless @Snerruc's place is surrounded by trees (possible), I fail to see what his problem is.

And that's enough on this topic for a non-solar thread on TMC.

Your cost of solar is off by 100%. I have 5 quotes for 10kW all over $30k. Don't count the tax credit, because that doesn't change the price I have to pay the installer. And electricity is closer to .18/kWh for me so solar is a 12 year payback, but I'm paying it all up front in today's dollars.

 

[aubreymcfato]

maybe Elon calls buddy/admirer Meloni direct for the next round of funds

Unfortunately, Musk doesn't seem to care to speak with Meloni about this, every time he came in Italy he spoke about babies and right-wing stuff. The government just said yesterday that they don't want to put in other funds because they believe in "technological neutrality"... meaning they want to keep financing ICEs.

I think Meloni also pulled out of the China Beltroad initiatives?

Sorry, I dunno.

How are China EV's doing in Italy?

Not great in May, I see only MG4 making the chart.

 

[Snerruc]

1. It's all the same planet. If they can build roofs to last hundreds of years in Europe, so can we if we choose to.
2. There is no income limit for the federal solar tax credit. However, you need a large enough taxable income to claim the full credit. If you owe less in taxes than what your credit is worth, you can roll over the remaining credit to future tax years.
3. The person I was referring to has a $200/month electric bill which the $18k, 10kW system would cover. I wasn't talking about "some of us", I was addressing someone specifically.

Overall, your reply was pretty meaningless.

Believe it or not some of don’t pay enough taxes to use a tax credit- me for example. Isn’t the important thing to be using solar power not how you generate it- especially when you buy it a lot cheaper than conventional?

 

[DarkandStormy]

I'm also pleasantly surprised by the 5 daily reporting countries trend on ev-evs.com the last few days, I didn't think Tesla had in them to do an EOQ push given the lower than usual level of export from China in May

So they haven't flattened the wave?

 

[SOULPEDL]

Be careful about @Snerruc. He's been having fun stating that, at 15 years from being bought, solar panels are "worthless".

Near as I can tell he's applying a tactic used by businesses to reduce the value of capital goods over time, called "depreciation". Which is fine for businesses that helps them keep running newer, more capable versions of Big Machines or even non-big machines that wear out over time.

But, as far as I know, individuals not filing business tax returns don't and can't use depreciation. And the whole idea, applied to household solar panels that are, inherently, Very Reliable, doesn't make sense. From a monetary point of view, the point of solar panels is zeroing out (or better) the costs of buying electricity. Electricity in that area is around $0.16/kW-hr, about the same as NJ. A typical home spends ~$250/month paying for electricity; that's about $3,000 a year. Cost of a reasonable solar panel system is around $15k, so that's a 5-year payback. Throw in the Federal Tax Credit and that shaves a year or two off of that. And, after the install, that's year after year after year, ad infinitum, of Not Paying For Electricity.

I happen to have solar panels that've lasted 15 years sans defect; I suspect that's typical, knowing the technology involved. Unless @Snerruc's place is surrounded by trees (possible), I fail to see what his problem is.

And that's enough on this topic for a non-solar thread on TMC.

I thought I squished all the bugs. Seems I missed one on my do not call list.

 

[Snerruc]

Your cost of solar is off by 100%. I have 5 quotes for 10kW all over $30k. Don't count the tax credit, because that doesn't change the price I have to pay the installer. And electricity is closer to .18/kWh for me so solar is a 12 year payback, but I'm paying it all up front in today's dollars.

Be careful about @Snerruc. He's been having fun stating that, at 15 years from being bought, solar panels are "worthless".

Near as I can tell he's applying a tactic used by businesses to reduce the value of capital goods over time, called "depreciation". Which is fine for businesses that helps them keep running newer, more capable versions of Big Machines or even non-big machines that wear out over time.

But, as far as I know, individuals not filing business tax returns don't and can't use depreciation. And the whole idea, applied to household solar panels that are, inherently, Very Reliable, doesn't make sense. From a monetary point of view, the point of solar panels is zeroing out (or better) the costs of buying electricity. Electricity in that area is around $0.16/kW-hr, about the same as NJ. A typical home spends ~$250/month paying for electricity; that's about $3,000 a year. Cost of a reasonable solar panel system is around $15k, so that's a 5-year payback. Throw in the Federal Tax Credit and that shaves a year or two off of that. And, after the install, that's year after year after year, ad infinitum, of Not Paying For Electricity.

I happen to have solar panels that've lasted 15 years sans defect; I suspect that's typical, knowing the technology involved. Unless @Snerruc's place is surrounded by trees (possible), I fail to see what his problem is.

And that's enough on this topic for a non-solar thread on TMC.

Woah! I never said they only last 15 years. Try gator, but I’m not sure he said that. He said ROOFS last 15 years in parts of Florida.

 

[NicoV]

So they haven't flattened the wave?

Those countries had 10K deliveries in the first 2 months. That’s a nice amount, but several thousand less than previous quarters. But this month so far had a faster delivery rate, especially the last week, and it looks like there can be more than 10K deliveries in the last month. So still somewhat backend loaded, but not like in the early wave quarters where almost all cars were delivered in the last month.
Combined with the Italy monster deliveries, Q2 in EU may be not as bad as feared.

 

[SO16]

Gotta love my local MI news. Just had a story about how EVs have electronic door releases and people are getting trapped in them not knowing how to get out. They did show how to find the manual release in the model 3 (which is extremely easy to find of course). But not before several minutes of fear mongering, stories of a baby getting trapped, older couple on the way to Vegas in the desert and of course only showed Tesla (along with a fire).

 

[sunwarriors]

Gotta love my local MI news. Just had a story about how EVs have electronic door releases and people are getting trapped in them not knowing how to get out. They did show how to find the manual release in the model 3 (which is extremely easy to find of course). But not before several minutes of fear mongering, stories of a baby getting trapped, older couple on the way to Vegas in the dessert and of course only showed Tesla (along with a fire).

I think this one was looking for social media content:

Disobey Tesla at your own risk: Woman tries to update vehicle while inside as temp hits 115

Brianna Janel said was stuck inside her Tesla car in 115-degree heat at a California Chick-Fil-A parking lot while installing a vehicle update.

www.usatoday.com

Of course, with customers like this, you can't help but assume any news org would cover it, but maybe it could have been better/obviously marked:

Arizona woman trapped in Tesla when battery dies

Diane has owned her Model Y for about three years without serious complaints. But that changed last month when she tried to go for a drive and found the battery had died.

www.azfamily.com

"So, where’s that secret latch? You’ll find it on the armrest but on the underside, and it’s completely unmarked.
Diane had no idea it was there. She says she’s talked with several Tesla owners over the past few weeks and they didn’t know about it either."

Honestly, if you have to read a book/manual, it's already too hard...to open a door.

 

[EQC_]

Gotta love my local MI news. Just had a story about how EVs have electronic door releases and people are getting trapped in them not knowing how to get out. They did show how to find the manual release in the model 3 (which is extremely easy to find of course). But not before several minutes of fear mongering, stories of a baby getting trapped, older couple on the way to Vegas in the dessert and of course only showed Tesla (along with a fire).

I've had front-seat passengers in my Y not understand how to get out, so they pull on the manual release and open the door that way before I can stop them. I try to correct them, as I know it's not great for the door seals/window/trim, especially if they are pushing the door open at the same time as they pull the lever.

I know the very early Y's didn't have the little "open door" symbol on the electronic door release button...but mine does. And people STILL go for the manual lever.

Which is all to say: given that first-time-riders in the car often reach for the manual release lever, it's so strange to me that some owners somehow don't even know it exists...

 

[jerry33]

I've had front-seat passengers in my Y not understand how to get out, so they pull on the manual release and open the door that way before I can stop them. I try to correct them, as I know it's not great for the door seals/window/trim, especially if they are pushing the door open at the same time as they pull the lever.

I know the very early Y's didn't have the little "open door" symbol on the electronic door release button...but mine does. And people STILL go for the manual lever.

Which is all to say: given that first-time-riders in the car often reach for the manual release lever, it's so strange to me that some owners somehow don't even know it exists...

It's not really that strange, unless someone tells you about it, you're very likely to do what you've done for the last X number of years. Electric door openers that didn't use the manual release lever are very new.

 

[insaneoctane]

Not sure these electric doors only exist on EVs. But, the manual release on my front doors for TM3 is stupid simple to find, but I don't think the back doors have one at all. That seems foolish. I'd prefer all doors have stupid simple manual releases for safety, you know when panic breaks your brain.

 

[SO16]

Not sure these electric doors only exist on EVs. But, the manual release on my front doors for TM3 is stupid simple to find, but I don't think the back doors have one at all. That seems foolish. I'd prefer all doors have stupid simple manual releases for safety, you know when panic breaks your brain.

The back has hidden pull release cords. I agree they should be easy to find.

 

[Stretch2727]

OT.

For anyone in New Jersey. I will make this on topic by saying it may save you enough for 1.4 shares TSLA. I am not sure how far out it will work. Sept 2024 let me extend to Sept 2025 without the EV fee. Another car with May 2026 expiration would not let me extend another year.

Deadline is July 1 as we all start paying $250 extra per year for EV registration.

NJ EV Registration Fee $250 Increase Hack

For anyone in NJ the registration fee is going to have an adder of $250 for EV's starting July 1. One of my EV's renews in September. No renewal notice yet. I was able to go into the NJ MVC system and renew until Sept 2025 for the normal fee of $71.50. Saved $250. I have a...

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