Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I am in a rural area of NJ and I can get 20 Model 3's within 20 miles from me.

Go to the Tesla website and configure a system.. What is the delivery time? If its less than 2 weeks you know the car is not being built and its already sitting on a lot.

Ah, the latter part explains a lot, it wasn’t there when I replied. Last I saw, that “less than 2 weeks” message is just an arbitrary number hard coded into their site. It says that everywhere in the US, and will continue to say it until some intern somewhere is told to change it to say something different.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Reactions: neroden and humbaba
On January 30th, Tesla guided to 1Q S&X deliveries of "slightly below Q1 2018" , that is, slightly below 21,815. Actual deliveries for the quarter were 12,600. That was not a production constrained problem. By the way, Tesla never updated guidance, even though they had to know they would be way below, which is why the final figure came as such a surprise.

This is the problem with credibility. As I vividly remember a judge once saying from the bench (fortunately not directed at me) "Credibility is like virginity. Once you lose it, you can never get it back."

So it goes with comments like "We had more orders for Model 3 than we could deliver." I really want to believe that is true. That way we can blame Panasonic, or parts shortages or wrong paperwork or other logistical problems for shortfall in deliveries." But something inside me fears that that they were including orders for the SR Model 3 that weren't even in production (even though delivery dates had been assigned). Hard not to have more orders than you can produce if you aren't making any effort to produce that variant.

Or I could be completely mistaken and "More orders really does mean more orders".

That's the problem when you lose credibility.

On a more positive note, the potential for an upside surprise could hardly be greater than it is right now. Biggest downside risk is that margins were worse than expected (in part due to deep discounting or incurring greater expense to maximize deliveries) that they make this a kitchen sink quarter to flush everything out. Also, store closings/severance would have been one time charges but operating costs will now be almost fully integrated into expenses. That may hurt EDITDA as well.

I am thinking an upside surprise is unlikely. I feel that this report will have the sp take a dump and then recovery pretty quickly after people have digested the information. Based on the disparity between the calculation here and the expected, it's another quarter set up for a miss.
 
I could see 30% of the world's population, simply because of India, but not 30% of the car market. India is like 20% of global population but only 4-5% of it's car market.
1200px-Countries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg.png



The US and China alone are half the world's auto market.

Exactly, that's why I was asking for a source on @Fact Checking 's claim.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Artful Dodger
Source, please.

I meant RHD. (Fixed it in the comment.)

Source:

Countries That Drive on the Left Side of the Road

"In total, there are 76 countries and territories that follow left-hand traffic laws -- or 34 percent of the world's population."​

RHD S/X sales are about 10% of the total, but that's mostly a function of higher purchase power of LHD countries.

With the much lower Model 3 ASP I'd expect a shift back towards the 34% population weight - 15-20% of all Model 3 sales could be RHD in the long run.

I.e. RHD Model 3 and Y is a more significant market than it appears based on S/X sales.
 
I am thinking an upside surprise is unlikely. I feel that this report will have the sp take a dump and then recovery pretty quickly after people have digested the information. Based on the disparity between the calculation here and the expected, it's another quarter set up for a miss.

I think it could be an upside surprise for the SP as long as the math makes it likely it can add itself to the S&P by end of Q2.

A loss under $250 would make this very likely (Tesla could lose a little over $100m in Q2 to make S&P), especially with guidance for profit in Q2

A loss of $400m would need Tesla to make a profit in Q2 to get S&P addition. The chance of addtion would depend entire on guidance, but the market would probably wait until picture is clearer.

A loss of $500m+ makes it almost entirely unlikely it would get added to the S&P in 2019. Q319 would have to better the Q318 numbers, and Q4 numbers would not get recognized until 2020 anyway.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: bdy0627
This community is happy to lash out at V8 powered pickup trucks and its drivers, but carrying twice the battery you realistically need, that's cool, even if it a needless sucker push to the environment? Might as well go rough up some orphans and disabled people.

Hey now, that's MY day job!


anecdotal: my 2013 Model S has about 10.4% degradation with 108,200 miles. I've seen my winter range drop to 43% of stated range (yah, really, when it's below 0F outside and the car was parked outside (plugged in)).
 
....They are still delivering about 30 cars a day now in Norway compared to the peak of several hundreds a day. I think this sounds like they are delivering in-stock cars at the rate that orders are coming in. ....
Don't you think that the slower delivers is because production switched to NA at end of Q (March), and only switched back to EU in the last week of March, and transport means that the new stock is likely just arriving about now?
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
People who like to point out that Tesla has more range, that also only applies to such a tiny subset of people who actually need it.
Please support this assertion.

While "need" is subjective. there is a significant (likely majority) of folks who drive more than 100 miles on regular occasions (or drive in the cold where that effective range is 60 miles). They "need" to not have to stop every hour to charge.

All the many other who buy it as just pumping CO2 into the atmosphere when they press "buy".

But, the 100 also needs like 3x the miles driven to break even against an ICEV. Outright wasteful unless you actually cannot charge more often than once in 250+ miles.
Goalpost moving. Please address the issues pointed out in your original assertions before moving on.

Taycan shows where it's at: 4C charging. You get very short stops and high travel speed, no need to boost battery capacity at monetary and environmental cost to get through the first 600 or 800 miles as quickly. Waste is waster. Let that sink in please.
The Taycan is ~90kWh. I thought you were advocating small packs as larger aren't needed as a result of fast charging?

Ioniq showed that it could hold its own against Bolt over 1,000 km. Despite less than half the battery size. That's what fast charging in combination with superior efficiency means.
Nobody is suggesting that a car that's less efficient or that lacks serious fast charging is at a disadvantage.

You are asserting that fast charging obviates the need for decent sized packs. That's not true if you don't want to stop and charge every hour on a road trip.


Tesla is now moving into the fast charging space, but packs are still very large. Once V3 is reality, needlessly large.
You keep asserting that while ignoring the argument against it. Hint: see above.


As fast CSS chargers pop up everywhere to serve the other brands' cars, that 100 kWh pack will be stupidly large, utterly wasteful. Let alone 100 kWh at Model 3's 3C.
The way this is all going, I think I could well swing a 50 kWh Model S with just one PMSR motor. Why actually needs more than 211 kW? ACTUALLY? With 150 kW, travel speed will be stellar. Who wants to pee in a bottle just to skip chargers?
A 50KW model S will get you 185+ miles range. That's about where the 60kWh packs used to be. Those will work for some fols, but they didn't sell nearly as well the next step up despite having fast charging available. The fact that it turns in to a 120 mile car in the cold may be one reason why.
 
Last edited:
On January 30th, Tesla guided to 1Q S&X deliveries of "slightly below Q1 2018" , that is, slightly below 21,815. Actual deliveries for the quarter were 12,600. That was not a production constrained problem.

That's why I asked the poster to qualify the question, and he meant Model 3 demand - which isn't demand constrained but supply constrained.

That Q1 S/X sales would drop sharply after the 75D pack was dropped was an unsurprising and expected outcome, given that 75D was about 55% of the S/X sales.

I projected that outcome in early January, if they didn't introduce a refresh in Q1 (which they didn't):

So yes, falling S/X demand in Q1'19 was entirely predictable and @luvb2b predicted it a number of times.

If the 100D/P100D variants remain the only options for the rest of the quarter, and if China new orders do not make up for the shortfall, then I'd expect Q1 S/X deliveries to be as low as 12-15k units - 55-75% of the 22k deliveries in Q1'2018.

12.1k deliveries was the actual Q1 result.

But in any case the original poster was talking about Model 3 demand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: neroden
I'm holding a 282.50 Friday expiry - who know, ER might not be *that* bad and we might get an SEC settlement which could mix things up.

History is that I bought the 282.50 last week for $6, then when SP popped a bit, sold a 287.50 also for $6, covering any loss (minus $40 tradings fees). Then when the SP sunk yesterday I rebought the 287.50 for $1.5 to give myself a lotto play for end of the week.

Options trading can be fun!

Options are a hell of a drug. Beware!

A), its something, but more like an in car adjustment, as we've already seen on the Model 3. YES some optimization for sure and some hardware changes. I'll wait to actually see if the kWH usage for the big S and X are actually going to translate through.

b) but, for a car/s this old, when I see some refresh like this, it tells me I shouldn't be expecting anything REALLY new for a while. I think we're looking into 2021 for a true S update. That's not good IMHO.

I think you're being a little hard on the modest refresh of the S/X.

The "kWh usage" has already been illustrated to "translate", as exemplified by MotorTrend's test drive linked and discussed at length in this very thread yesterday. The range improvements are all based on increases in efficiency, which will keep margins higher since cell costs will remain static. The margin hit from the drivetrain change should be minimized due to cost efficiencies based on parts sharing with the Model 3. Perhaps more importantly, a lower priced variant has been re-introduced, expanding the addressable market for these vehicles.

The changes, combined, strike me as significant enough to likely result in an increase to sales -- I know I'm certainly interested as a prospective buyer.
 
Don't you think that the slower delivers is because production switched to NA at end of Q (March), and only switched back to EU in the last week of March, and transport means that the new stock is likely just arriving about now?

Yeah the pattern of Euro in general is so obvious that the fact that he pointed out Norway deliveries are only 30/day right now is silly. It's the same process they've been doing for S/X for years now.
 
This community is happy to lash out at V8 powered pickup trucks and its drivers, but carrying twice the battery you realistically need, that's cool, even if it a needless sucker push to the environment? Might as well go rough up some orphans and disabled people.
Well, I hope you are being a 'little over the top'. Yes, having more battery than one needs is inefficient and even profligate. MR is good for me, I live in a temperate climate with little snow, and mild winters -- but others do need the range, particularly in the winter.

Also, even if there is a 'charging station at every gas station/corner', that doesn't mean one wants to stop every 2 miles - that is inefficient of time. I charge as necessary, and almost always at my home.