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Let's see: what's the difference?

Tesla's HQ is now in Texas, and they've spent around $2 billion there for the Giga Austin factory IIRC. Then there's the lithium refining facility that's being built as I type this, for another several hundred million . . . .

One would think that the Texas legislature would consider making it legal for Tesla to sell their products to Texas residents, but that's a bridge too far for them as the Texas Auto Dealers Association makes those fat campaign contributions.

It's our little Third-World hamlet in the US.
The efforts in the legislature by slimebag dealerships have made NO difference to Tesla's deliveries in Texas - which have climbed every year by percentages that would make any dealer green with envy. (Also, Texas has always been one of Tesla's biggest states for deliveries.)

Tesla is going to hit the dealerships where it hurts... revenue & profits. It's going to be a lot more miserable being a car dealer. I feel so sad for those wealthy, multi-generational dynasties extracting money from their perch in between manufacturers and customers. Not.

And eventually their second nightmare will begin... as the ICE service gravytrain slows down.
 
I do wonder how much faith Elon has had in AI. Yes, he built a team to use narrow AI for cognition, but the whole FSD effort until this year was massively complex with 300,000 lines of C code to actually do the planning and driving. Meanwhile George Hotz and others were doing end to end NN driving years ago.
The first proof of concept end to end NN driving concept was demonstrated of a taco bell drive on Dec 15th, 2022 from comma AI. This is the first full end to end NN driving concept. So not "years ago". The project started in early 2022. The drive was also very iffy, where they made many attempts and only a few actually worked. The car would miss exits and do weird things throughout multiple attempts.

Tesla's V11 is currently massively superior to end to end NN driving from comma AI, and in many ways superior to V12 in it's current form. I would say that V12 seems to have surpassed comma ai's end to end drive from December, as it seems more ready for mass release.
 
The first proof of concept end to end NN driving concept was demonstrated of a taco bell drive on Dec 15th, 2022 from comma AI.
George Hotz, to his credit, always insisted that end-to-end AI was the way to go since the very beginning of Comma AI. Thankfully, he has too much integrity to sell out to other car companies and much to the advantage of Tesla, didn’t have much capital to accelerate the process.
 
Threads of the day:
Tesla Compact Hatch Coming? $25k won't be cyber and won't look like the future so much?
Tesla Robotaxi (Gen 3) Won't be cyber but will look like the future? Pure robotaxi design. 4 seats facing each other?
"Unboxed" Gen 3 manufacturing Process Both designs unboxed which means 3 main sub-assemblies
1694325574771.png

FSD discussion Walter CNBC V12 article
Tesla Energy and utility scale projects PW3
Gigafactory locations and products Gen3 Texas 2025, Shanghai, Berlin & Mexico 2026?
Supercharger Revenue Hilton deal

Next 9 days:
12th Sep - Elon biography published
12th Sep - Apple event
13th Sep - Detroit starts
15th Sep - quarterly LEAP expiry
19th Sep - FOMC
 
As excited as I am for this E2E NN in v12 and hoping for FSD to have its ChatGPT moment, I also remember experiencing ChatGPT. It was mind blowing. Then I realized some of the amazing answers it confidently offered me were completely false! I wonder about the FSD analogy of that. While more training will likely help, there will always be edge cases with limited training and I don't understand the risk of this approach in those situations.
 
Do we actually know the exact wording that Isaacson used in the book ? If the quote in the Axios article is precise, that is extremely poor wording on Isaacson’s part. It’s ambiguous. The wording immediately jumped out at me as weird if it was coming from a writer as successful as Isaacson.

It is entirely possible that something has been lost in translation between the article and the book.
Walter Isaacson writes for a general audience, and as such he has in the past made some glaring mistakes that matter to experts in the subject matter he is writing about that are missed by himself or his editor. There were some shockers in his Steve Jobs Biography (even though he shadowed Steve Jobs and had full access to colleagues) that any student of Apple the company immediately picked up on.

So I would expect quite a few inaccuracies in his Musk bio.

Issacson already had a bit of a clusterf@!k in recent days (with his release of the Ukraine/Starlink debacle excerpt from the book), which has led to him having to issue clarification statements that directly contradict parts of his account from the book about an incident where he was actually present.

So my expectations are low.

============================

(Would have loved to have seen Elon choose a more modern forward looking choice for his biography, and had someone like lex friedman shadow him with a camera crew and release it as a 10 hour docuseries that cut between narration about his recollections on his past, and fly on the wall segments at his present companies and personal life, and finally with forward looking thoughts. Tim Urban (from Wait but Why) would have also been a much better choice, given his previous massive deep dive book sized articles with Musk)
 
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I had a read of those X's and am not sure I interpret them the same way. It sounds more like the Xer is saying the following:
  • Tesla prices megapack for $x (with a 60% margin)
  • Tesla charges megapack customer 40% of $x as a deposit
  • Tesla uses the 40% of $x to pay for cells
  • Tesla earns the remaining 60% of x as it delivers on the contract
Or to put it another way, they sized the deposit to match cell cogs to make the deal working capital neutral. However, I don't see anything that suggests Tesla is obligated to drop Megapack pricing if cell costs decrease. If I'm understanding it correctly, they could keep the megapack price the same and "increase their float" or drop the 40% deposit to just cover cell cogs while maintaining the original megapack price as far as I can tell.

Don't get me wrong, I love that the market will (broadly) follow the cell cost decline curve and flood the industry with storage to get us away from fossil fuel - but I don't see a pricing pass-through between cell price and megapack price - and Tesla should extract as wide a margin as they can while fully ramping production.
Can’t really use the megapack pricing on the website - Tesla installs the big projects at significant discounts to those web prices, which is readily apparent in quarterly earnings report with deployed storage amounts vs energy segment revenue.
 
So from the latest excerpt some new information was gained:

By mid-April 2023, it was time for Musk to try the new neural network planner. He sat in the driver’s seat next to Ashok Elluswamy, Tesla’s director of Autopilot software. Three members of the Autopilot team got in the back. As they prepared to leave the parking lot at Tesla’s Palo Alto office complex, Musk selected a location on the map for the car to go and took his hands off the wheel.

When the car turned onto the main road, the first scary challenge arose: a bicyclist was heading their way. On its own, the car yielded, just as a human would have done.
For 25 minutes, the car drove on fast roads and neighborhood streets, handling complex turns and avoiding cyclists, pedestrians and pets. Musk never touched the wheel. Only a couple of times did he intervene by tapping the accelerator when he thought the car was being overly cautious, such as when it was too deferential at a four-way stop sign. At one point the car conducted a maneuver that he thought was better than he would have done. “Oh, wow,” he said, “even my human neural network failed here, but the car did the right thing.” He was so pleased that he started whistling Mozart’s “A Little Night Music” serenade in G major.


So FSD v12 was good enough to be be driven by Musk by mid april. Since then they have been improving the system until we got to see the demo in aug with one intervention in a 40min drive. I guess this is a bit disappointing since we thought the big leap happened more recently, but also shows that Tesla has been putting a lot of work into this and it was not such a risky demo as it seemed.

During the discussion, Musk latched on to a key fact the team had discovered: The neural network did not work well until it had been trained on at least a million video clips. This gave Tesla a big advantage over other car and AI companies. It had a fleet of almost 2 million Teslas around the world collecting video clips every day. “We are uniquely positioned to do this,” Elluswamy said at the meeting.

Here it sounds as if Elon only liked it because Tesla had an advantage this way. More like it's because he saw the potential of the system by extrapolating in his head what it would be able to do with even more data and compute. And it's not a million video clips that's needed, it's a million video clips of challenging situations where experts drivers have been driving expertly. They have all the failure cases from V1 to V11 and all the data they used to fix them to start with, that's their main advantage here.

My guess is that around a year ago or something a side project of end2end started showing primise they got more resources around the end of last year and by april they were confident enough to let Musk try it. Musk was sold and said that from now on, that would be their main priority. Then somewhere between april and the demo it was clear that V12 would overtake V11 on miles/intervention and around now it actually is better than V11 at driving but needs more validation before it goes wide(ie it may not require intervention as often, but it may have more catastrophic failures).

Overall it makes me more bullish for FSD but little bet bearish on the timeline until customers can try it.
Interesting that this end-to-end NN seems to have started around the time Andrej Karpathy left....

Perhaps not a coincidence....
 
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Walter Isaacson writes for a general audience, and as such he has in the past made some glaring mistakes that matter to experts in the subject matter he is writing about that are missed by himself or his editor. There were some shockers in his Steve Jobs Biography (even though he shadowed Steve Jobs and had full access to colleagues) that any student of Apple the company immediately picked up on.

So I would expect quite a few inaccuracies in his Musk bio.

Issacson already had a bit of a clusterf@!k in recent days (with his release of the Ukraine/Starlink debacle excerpt from the book), which has led to him having to issue clarification statements that directly contradict parts of his account from the book about an incident where he was actually present.

So my expectations are low.

============================

(Would have loved to have seen Elon choose a more modern forward looking choice for his biography, and had someone like lex friedman shadow him with a camera crew and release it as a 10 hour docuseries that cut between narration about his recollections on his past, and fly on the wall segments at his present companies and personal life, and finally with forward looking thoughts. Tim Urban (from Wait but Why) would have also been a much better choice, given his previous massive deep dive book sized articles with Musk)
Elon is just 50. There will be time for an updated biography at 60, when he becomes the first trillionaire, and at 70, when he lands on Mars to oversee a 10 000 people colony, supported by about 100 000 Optimus69 robots ;-) Agree that Tim Urban would be a good choice.
 
Walter Isaacson writes for a general audience, and as such he has in the past made some glaring mistakes that matter to experts in the subject matter he is writing about that are missed by himself or his editor. There were some shockers in his Steve Jobs Biography (even though he shadowed Steve Jobs and had full access to colleagues) that any student of Apple the company immediately picked up on.

So I would expect quite a few inaccuracies in his Musk bio.

Issacson already had a bit of a clusterf@!k in recent days (with his release of the Ukraine/Starlink debacle excerpt from the book), which has led to him having to issue clarification statements that directly contradict parts of his account from the book about an incident where he was actually present.

So my expectations are low.

============================

(Would have loved to have seen Elon choose a more modern forward looking choice for his biography, and had someone like lex friedman shadow him with a camera crew and release it as a 10 hour docuseries that cut between narration about his recollections on his past, and fly on the wall segments at his present companies and personal life, and finally with forward looking thoughts. Tim Urban (from Wait but Why) would have also been a much better choice, given his previous massive deep dive book sized articles with Musk)
Lex would be a poor choice. Urban would be great IMO.
 
As a side note for those without a software background, I want to point out that 300,000 lines of C code really isn't all that much. The Linux kernel has over 30 million lines. And that's just the kernel.

Also, lines of code are not created equal. It's what those lines do that is important. And sometimes you can do something really complex and elegant in very few lines of code.

When Elon said they were replacing 300,000 lines of code, he wasn't telling us anything. When he said they were replacing those lines with end-to-end neural nets, that spoke volumes.
Ha, you beat me to it :D.
As a C++ coder I always wonder wtf they mean by lines of code. What counts as a line? Some people use 'egyptian' code formatting where curly brackets are on the same line as the prior code, some (like me) stick the brackets on a new, otherwise empty line for readability.
Sounds like nitpicking, but depending how you count, and how big your functions are, that could boost lines of code by 25% :D.
 
Ha, you beat me to it :D.
As a C++ coder I always wonder wtf they mean by lines of code. What counts as a line? Some people use 'egyptian' code formatting where curly brackets are on the same line as the prior code, some (like me) stick the brackets on a new, otherwise empty line for readability.
Sounds like nitpicking, but depending how you count, and how big your functions are, that could boost lines of code by 25% :D.
Assembler instruction count would be more accurate because one line of C code can have significantly more assembler instruction than another.
 
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Walter Isaacson writes for a general audience, and as such he has in the past made some glaring mistakes that matter to experts in the subject matter he is writing about that are missed by himself or his editor. There were some shockers in his Steve Jobs Biography (even though he shadowed Steve Jobs and had full access to colleagues) that any student of Apple the company immediately picked up on.

So I would expect quite a few inaccuracies in his Musk bio.

Issacson already had a bit of a clusterf@!k in recent days (with his release of the Ukraine/Starlink debacle excerpt from the book), which has led to him having to issue clarification statements that directly contradict parts of his account from the book about an incident where he was actually present.

So my expectations are low.

============================

(Would have loved to have seen Elon choose a more modern forward looking choice for his biography, and had someone like lex friedman shadow him with a camera crew and release it as a 10 hour docuseries that cut between narration about his recollections on his past, and fly on the wall segments at his present companies and personal life, and finally with forward looking thoughts. Tim Urban (from Wait but Why) would have also been a much better choice, given his previous massive deep dive book sized articles with Musk)
This I find astonishing. Most of Isaacson's biographies are written after the death of the subjects, Henry Kissinger and now Musk being the two exceptions. I would have expected Musk and close associates to have early copies of the book to weed-out such inaccuracies, seems like a very obvious thing to do

Now if Musk said "I don't want to read it, just go", then that's very sloppy as you can be sure the usual detractors will be cherry-picking every little morsel they can to throw shade at Musk and his ventures
 
BTW end 2 end is the magic bullet to computer learning but not the magic bullet to performance. Guidance is now center stage.

Just because a child can learn doesn't mean its easy parenting for a child to be a positive member of society 20 years later, and is doing what you have hoped.

Comma Ai presentation talks a lot about how it's easy to introduce suble regression into end to end. So this is not easy by any means.
 
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Some things far enough out of my knowledge base that, while I grasped their essentials when first discussed, I realize a usable understanding of them and their important distinctions once again is elusive. So -

Someone who is confident s/he can clearly explain Neural Net vs End-to-End please step up to the plate and assist me and I rather suspect others.

Thank you.