Tesla Turns Off AEB In New Cars Produced Since July

[bcsteeve]

Oh, right... it came back to me.

A very common point being made here is the seemingly refutable logic that many people have been blessed with. So many of you are making points based on logic that - on the surface seems sound, but is = grounded in facts that you've invented.

Let's take that IIHS roof strength thing. I saw that so I looked it up. Then I kept looking. There isn't much information AT ALL, that I could find at least. There's a brief mention of it on the IIHS website, but we don't know that their methodology means squat because they haven't published it. Some made up ratio? I guess the idea is that IF a P100D rolls over, that the extra weight of the battery MIGHT cause a problem (squish) because it is heavier but they haven't made the pillar stronger. Huh? Maybe the pillar of the original was 10x over-strong? We don't know. But more importantly, that extra low-down weight means it is that much less likely for the car to roll over in the first place, right? But that doesn't count? Just some weird made up and unexplained ration? I don't know... and that's my point, neither do you. Yet you make some leap of logic resulting in a point that must be correct.

Or this oft-referenced "they haven't validated/tested this new hardware". You don't know what they've done. Yes, on the surface, your argument sounds reasonable, but again you are filling in a million blanks to make a supposedly irrefutable truth. "They pulled AEB therefore it wasn't tested". Err... no, no that's not correct at all. The truth is, we have no idea. The people making these statements aren't the engineers working on the systems. They aren't insiders. They really don't know squat. They want to sound like the lawyers that provide esophageal health advice (wtf?) but the truth is, they're couch engineers offering conclusions based on... nothing. Less than nothing, really, because its all based on one media outlet's interpretation of a freakin Reddit post!

I believe (and its just my random neurons firing, this isn't based on anything and I'm not going to pretend it is like so many posting here) that it isn't a matter that the hardware wasn't tested, but rather that machine learning is complex and the beast needs data to function correctly. I don't think this was a case of "crap, flaw... retreat retreat!", but rather a planned roll-out strategy that the media outlet misinterpreted (par for the course)

My irrefutable conclusion... calm down. Wait for real information before making sweeping claims about things you don't understand.

 

[bcsteeve]

Complaining, too. So you fit right in ;-)

My goal in life.

 

[bcsteeve]

Level 1 on the Volt is the red light HUD. FCW - Forward collision warning. True AEB comes on if you ignore the warning.

And - like every [electric] car not called a Tesla - only if you're going at a speed that wouldn't have caused much of an issue anyway (unless its a soft target issue).

[edit: added "electric"]

 

[oktane]

You are telling me that you would have bought from another manufacturer if Autopilot didn't exist? Okay.... you are one of the very few outliers. I really enjoy my car even without AP.

Yes I would have bought an R8 V10 Plus or AMG GTR for similar money and much less depreciation and a much more "engaging" driving experience plus a lot more street cred. I figured I'd pass on my typical sports car and go the EV route since AP2 would be mind blowing. Boy was I wrong!

If I really wanted an EV on top of it I would have bought a nice CPO AP1 Tesla or just waited for the M3 which will be as good, if not better than the Model S, at a much cheaper price point.

 

[SO16]

This statement is clearly not correct-- at least not with respect to vehicles and other dangerous heavy equipment. Most cars have at most two or three recalls over their lifetimes, and typically those have to do with failures that actually occur in only a tiny fraction of the cars out on the road (but all cars need to be fixed as a prophylactic measure). If cars shipped while there were still "major issues" left to be fixed later, the highways would be a total bloodbath.

This is the danger of importing a web design/software philosophy into a product line that demands traditional industrial/safety engineering and testing.

If your product can (indeed will) get involved in incidents that kill people, you've got to get it right the first time.

This statement is clearly not correct.

Tell the airplane manufacturers and automakers to not release a product until they got it right. There are still crashes due to hardware/design failures. Everyone accepts some level of risk when using a man made vehicle.

 

[jelloslug]

Yes I would have bought an R8 V10 Plus or AMG GTR for similar money and much less depreciation and a much more "engaging" driving experience plus a lot more street cred. I figured I'd pass on my typical sports car and go the EV route since AP2 would be mind blowing. Boy was I wrong!

If I really wanted an EV on top of it I would have bought a nice CPO AP1 Tesla or just waited for the M3 which will be as good, if not better than the Model S, at a much cheaper price point.

If you think either of those cars would have had lower depreciation, you are in for a surprise.

 

[Economite]

This statement is clearly not correct.

Tell the airplane manufacturers and automakers to not release a product until they got it right. There are still crashes due to hardware/design failures. Everyone accepts some level of risk when using a man made vehicle.

Wait... So you think that airplanes are shipped while there are still "major issues." No way, they test those things to a truly heroic level of safety. That's why there are so few crashes caused by mechanical failures/design defects.

 

[SO16]

Yes I would have bought an R8 V10 Plus or AMG GTR for similar money and much less depreciation and a much more "engaging" driving experience plus a lot more street cred. I figured I'd pass on my typical sports car and go the EV route since AP2 would be mind blowing. Boy was I wrong!

If I really wanted an EV on top of it I would have bought a nice CPO AP1 Tesla or just waited for the M3 which will be as good, if not better than the Model S, at a much cheaper price point.

I make a point to only buy a product once I KNOW it does what I want at the time of purchase (like every other car I have purchased over the years.). And since AP means little to me, I purchased the AP2 car but did not activate EAP yet. If I was buying a car solely for AP, then I would wait until it's working to my satisfaction before buying.

I've driven the R8. I definitely prefer the Model S. When I was 16, I was impressed by engine noise. Now it's just noise. I prefer a vehicle that I like since I am buying it...not what somewhat else thinks is cool. To each their own.

You can still sell your car (unless you leased it). Albeit for a loss. But the sooner you sell, the more you will get for it. You could even have someone buy out your lease. Seems pointless to keep an expensive vehicle you don't want anymore.

 

[oktane]

If you think either of those cars would have had lower depreciation, you are in for a surprise.

More depreciation than a Model S that will be supplanted by a Model 3 that provides almost the same experience, but better AP2.5 hardware, with a starting MSRP at less than half that of the Model S?

As soon as M3 hits the masses, MS will take a huge depreciation hit.

 

[SO16]

Wait... So you think that airplanes are shipped while there are still "major issues." No way, they test those things to a truly heroic level of safety. That's why there are so few crashes caused by mechanical failures/design defects.

Like the F35?

 

[alcibiades]

Oh, right... it came back to me.

A very common point being made here is the seemingly refutable logic that many people have been blessed with. So many of you are making points based on logic that - on the surface seems sound, but is = grounded in facts that you've invented.

Let's take that IIHS roof strength thing. I saw that so I looked it up. Then I kept looking. There isn't much information AT ALL, that I could find at least. There's a brief mention of it on the IIHS website, but we don't know that their methodology means squat because they haven't published it. Some made up ratio? I guess the idea is that IF a P100D rolls over, that the extra weight of the battery MIGHT cause a problem (squish) because it is heavier but they haven't made the pillar stronger. Huh? Maybe the pillar of the original was 10x over-strong? We don't know. But more importantly, that extra low-down weight means it is that much less likely for the car to roll over in the first place, right? But that doesn't count? Just some weird made up and unexplained ration? I don't know... and that's my point, neither do you. Yet you make some leap of logic resulting in a point that must be correct.

Or this oft-referenced "they haven't validated/tested this new hardware". You don't know what they've done. Yes, on the surface, your argument sounds reasonable, but again you are filling in a million blanks to make a supposedly irrefutable truth. "They pulled AEB therefore it wasn't tested". Err... no, no that's not correct at all. The truth is, we have no idea. The people making these statements aren't the engineers working on the systems. They aren't insiders. They really don't know squat. They want to sound like the lawyers that provide esophageal health advice (wtf?) but the truth is, they're couch engineers offering conclusions based on... nothing. Less than nothing, really, because its all based on one media outlet's interpretation of a freakin Reddit post!

I believe (and its just my random neurons firing, this isn't based on anything and I'm not going to pretend it is like so many posting here) that it isn't a matter that the hardware wasn't tested, but rather that machine learning is complex and the beast needs data to function correctly. I don't think this was a case of "crap, flaw... retreat retreat!", but rather a planned roll-out strategy that the media outlet misinterpreted (par for the course)

My irrefutable conclusion... calm down. Wait for real information before making sweeping claims about things you don't understand.

I'm calm. Calmer than you are.

 

[oktane]

I make a point to only buy a product once I KNOW it does what I want at the time of purchase (like every other car I have purchased over the years.). And since AP means little to me, I purchased the AP2 car but did not activate EAP yet. If I was buying a car solely for AP, then I would wait until it's working to my satisfaction before buying.

I've driven the R8. I definitely prefer the Model S. When I was 16, I was impressed by engine noise. Now it's just noise. I prefer a vehicle that I like since I am buying it...not what somewhat else thinks is cool. To each their own.

You can still sell your car (unless you leased it). Albeit for a loss. But the sooner you sell, the more you will get for it. You could even have someone buy out your lease. Seems pointless to keep an expensive vehicle you don't want anymore.

If I could go back in time I would. I will sell my car once I get the class action settlement money lol. And once something nicer comes out in an EV. We all know if you want a practical EV that for now, Tesla is the only game in town. Don't get me wrong, I like my car just fine, but I was hoodwinked by Tesla to the tune of at least $100,000.

 

[SO16]

If I could go back in time I would. I will sell my car once I get the class action settlement money lol. And once something nicer comes out in an EV. We all know if you want a practical EV that for now, Tesla is the only game in town.

Well.... live and learn. Next time.

 

[jimmy_d]

Just wait until we find out this radar change was cost driven and the fact the software would require ample revision wasn't considered in the decision. Bosch probably factored the value of Tesla already knowing how to use the hardware in their negotiating just like Mobileye and once again Tesla managed to fumble away capability in the deal. Keep it up! My AP1 car is going to be a sought after asset until the adult managed OEMs launch Lvl 4 vehicles

The specs on the new/old radar were discussed over in the HW2.5 capabilities thread. It looks like the new Continental radar has significantly better specs. Of course, it might also be cheaper I suppose.

 

[jelloslug]

More depreciation than a Model S that will be supplanted by a Model 3 that provides almost the same experience, but better AP2.5 hardware, with a starting MSRP at less than half that of the Model S?

As soon as M3 hits the masses, MS will take a huge depreciation hit.

I seriously doubt that. In fact, for the next two years I predict that there will be no negative impact on the Model S as people that want a Model 3 now that did not reserve one 18 months ago look to a 3 year old Model S to fill the void. After that, the Model S should have moved up market enough that sales of one vs the other would not matter.

 

[Economite]

Like the F35?

I meant civilian aircraft.

There's a whole different equation for balancing performance against risk to operator with respect to military aircraft, which are designed to be operated in inherently dangerous situations by highly trained pilots.

Also... The military procurement system and the aerospace contractors constitute a very mucked up process for building anything. You really want to use that as a model for design and testing of cars meant to be operated during peacetime on public roads by essentially untrained civilian drivers?

 

[McRat]

And - like every car not called a Tesla - only if you're going at a speed that wouldn't have caused much of an issue anyway (unless its a soft target issue).

There are 2 systems, high speed and low speed. High speed requires the radar equipped cars. It triggers at freeway speeds on all GM radar equipped cars.

My wife found this out the hard way. Somebody panicked on the 91 Freeway when they put in the new toll road merge lanes right next to the fast lane. She was going 'over 75' when the panicky driver pulled in front of her. It went FCW/LED/Audio. She does not know if whether the car hit the brakes before she did, but it avoided a certain collision at that speed according to her. The Cadillac gave me a head's up at 85-90 on the I-15 out of Vegas, but I hit the brakes before the car did.

You can try the same thing at 75 if you like. Get into the fast lane, go 75, then pull into the slower lane when you approach a car at a few car lengths. If it's like a GM, it should not hit the car in front of you. If it hits the car, just wait for another update and try again.

 

[bcsteeve]

I will sell my car once I get the class action settlement money lol.

Since you are very prone to making leaps in logic and assumptions, you might want to check into that a bit before deciding... I'm pretty sure you're compensated for distress at the time the class is defined. Whether or not you sell subsequently shouldn't matter. Of course check into that first, but I think if you want out, you can get out and still be a full member of the class.

That's if you actually own the car. You seem to have a lot of time to spend complaining on a forum about a rich-man's car having rich-man's problems and about even richer-man's cars that you'd buy instead had you don't what most rich-men learned a long time ago... research. Maybe you were born stupidly rich or maybe you lucked into money... in either case, shrug your shoulders and hand the keys to some bum and move on. If you earned your money, you had to have gotten there somehow. If you made a mistake with your purchase then cut your losses and move one.

 

[bcsteeve]

There are 2 systems, high speed and low speed. High speed requires the radar equipped cars. It triggers at freeway speeds on all GM radar equipped cars.

Sure, but weren't we talking about the Volt?

 

[alcibiades]

Since you are very prone to making leaps in logic and assumptions, you might want to check into that a bit before deciding... I'm pretty sure you're compensated for distress at the time the class is defined. Whether or not you sell subsequently shouldn't matter. Of course check into that first, but I think if you want out, you can get out and still be a full member of the class.

That's if you actually own the car. You seem to have a lot of time to spend complaining on a forum about a rich-man's car having rich-man's problems and about even richer-man's cars that you'd buy instead had you don't what most rich-men learned a long time ago... research. Maybe you were born stupidly rich or maybe you lucked into money... in either case, shrug your shoulders and hand the keys to some bum and move on. If you earned your money, you had to have gotten there somehow. If you made a mistake with your purchase then cut your losses and move one.

Calmer than you are.