Tesla vs BMW i3 test drove both back to back.

[AEdennis]

My understanding is that @woof is correct.

It is disappointing that some press sources have gotten confused about the i3 in this regard. I'm not a big fan of the car, but it deserves to be represented accurately.

I wouldn't blame it all on the press... Unfortunately, the good folks at BMWUSA have done a really poor job at handling this launch and they are to blame for some of the miscommunication out there...

Starting with the California white sticker for the REX and now the sales tax situation in NJ, not to mention the removal of the moon roof...

It's like Keystone Cops over there... And I'm a big BMW fan.

 

[green1]

As Elon said, dealers who sell ICE vehicles do not have incentive to sell electric, these people are not going to go out of their way to get their facts right when their profits rely on them getting them wrong.

 

[AEdennis]

As Elon said, dealers who sell ICE vehicles do not have incentive to sell electric, these people are not going to go out of their way to get their facts right when their profits rely on them getting them wrong.

My point is not even with the independent dealers. Most don't know anything with the exception of Manny Antunes in NJ. My point is BMW CORPORATE, i.e. the SOURCE for the information, doesn't know anything nor communicate the actual information. The conflicting information is a function of BMWiUSA sending out the wrong information and then "correcting" it later.

 

[green1]

And you think BMW corporate had much more incentive for EVs to work than their dealers do?

 

[AEdennis]

And you think BMW corporate had much more incentive for EVs to work than their dealers do?

The "BMWi" sub-brand does...

 

[EarlyAdopter]

The "BMWi" sub-brand does...

Right. And they're in Germany. Who do you think they got at BMWNA to step up for this one? This guy? The i3 beats the Model S because its brakes feel better? Really? That's BMWNA's strategy?

It's pretty clear from the i3 rollout, lack of training to dealers, and the whole crushing all of the ActiveE fiasco that it didn't attract the A Team at BMWNA.

 

[AEdennis]

Right. And they're in Germany. Who do you think they got at BMW USA to step up for this one?

Guys, a good chunk of the BMWi team is out of New Jersey... Last I checked that's still a state in the Union... Not a very friendly one for Tesla purchasers, but definitely not in Germany.

 

[stopcrazypp]

To be fair, even Tesla's front-line marketing people can get technical details mixed up. Apparently BMW is not immune to this either.

 

[Electroman]

So do I understand i3 is a souped up Volt with funky looks, crazy rear doors and with a BMW price tag (read twice that of Volt) ?

Question: does adaptive cruise control work under 30mph on city traffic. If so I can see how it can come real handy in stop and go traffic.

 

[woof]

So do I understand i3 is a souped up Volt with funky looks, crazy rear doors and with a BMW price tag (read twice that of Volt) ?

Question: does adaptive cruise control work under 30mph on city traffic. If so I can see how it can come real handy in stop and go traffic.

As far as souped up Volt...perhaps? The i3 comes in two flavors, pure BEV (souped up LEAF perhaps...same range, quicker acceleration), and Range Extended. But unlike the Volt the range extended version still has an 80ish mile battery. It's a LEAF with a generator in the trunk. Volt has better performance on gas alone, with a much larger engine.

As for adaptive cruise, it works well at slow speeds, even down to 0 MPH and will fully stop the car smoothly. It's like having a tractor beam tied to the car ahead. In the US it won't "go" forward on it's own after a full stop unless you nudge the accelerator a bit, then it will speed match the car in front.

 

[rage_777]

Indeed, it would be pathetic if that were the case, but it is not. It's one of the many myths and incorrect statements about the i3.

The i3 gas tank may be refilled as often as needed to continue of trip of infinite duration on gas power alone. Running on gas will NOT recharge the battery up to full, but instead will attempt to maintain the battery at a fixed level of charge (6% in the US, user selectable in other markets). The battery becomes a buffer which is filled up to this limit when the power draw is below what the engine provides, and which is drained when the power draw is above the 25 kW or so the engine can maintain.

For most driving 25 kW average power usage plus using the battery's power for peaks above that is enough.

So if you take the i3 with the ReX engine on a cross country trip and don't want to stop to recharge, you have to stop every 100 miles or less for gas after the battery goes down to 6%? Where the Volt can go about 300 miles on gas alone. If people are complaining about the Model S having to wait for an hour every 200 - 250 miles, not sure how they are going to like refueling every 100 miles.

 

[Cal1]

Totally agree. I've owned BMW and they just don't understand electronics in general and computer interfaces. The idrive was a failure from the start and has taken years to get a little better. Can't wait to see what folks say about i3's after they've been out for a few years!!!

 

[CalDreamin]

So if you take the i3 with the ReX engine on a cross country trip and don't want to stop to recharge, you have to stop every 100 miles or less for gas after the battery goes down to 6%? Where the Volt can go about 300 miles on gas alone. If people are complaining about the Model S having to wait for an hour every 200 - 250 miles, not sure how they are going to like refueling every 100 miles.

I understand the i3 REX would need to stop every 60-70 miles to gas up. And forget about being able to drive up to the mountains, the little REX engine hasn't got enough power.

 

[wraithnot]

I understand the i3 REX would need to stop every 60-70 miles to gas up. And forget about being able to drive up to the mountains, the little REX engine hasn't got enough power.

From the review in the telegraph, a rain storm and a "slight incline" will also cause problems for the i3 once the REX kicks in:

"I’d just come through a heavy but localised rain storm on the M20 when the i3 started to slow. It was a gradual process, from motorway cruising speed all the way down to 44mph. By this time I was travelling up a slight incline and had effectively become a slow-moving obstacle. Lorries were catching me with quite frankly terrifying closing speeds. It was three or four minutes - which was long enough to make me consider pulling over - before the i3 recovered; just as slowly as it had lost speed, so it crept up.

It’s not a limp-home mode as such,” a BMW spokesman later told me, “but once the charge runs down to five or six per cent and the range extender cuts in, if you keep driving at 75-80mph it can’t maintain the charge.” Rather than damage the battery by running it completely flat, the i3 had restricted our performance."

Video: BMW i3 Range Extender review - Telegraph

It seems like a relatively simple fix to let the user engage the REX whenever they think they'll need it rather than only when the battery gets really low. Perhaps they'll implement this since the i3 REX didn't qualify for the California white carpool lane sticker.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Perhaps they'll implement this since the i3 REX didn't qualify for the California white carpool lane sticker.

This has already been mentioned up thread. The REx limitations have nothing to do with the white carpool sticker. As long as the car has a tailpipe (CNGVs excepted), it will not be able to get a white sticker no matter how they design it. BMW already said the REx will get a green sticker from the start (even though journalists keep projecting otherwise).

The REx limitations are so that BMW can get ZEV credits, so it's unlikely BMW will make any changes to it, unless the BEVx criteria is redesigned.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The other thing that the BMW does better is the ability to receive addresses from your desktop google searches. Send an address to the car before you get to the car.

The Nissan LEAF always has had this feature, and I used it a lot !!! I also like the stored routes feature. I make several differnt "milk runs" that I don't want to program each time... just pick the stored route and go, and when there's a change, it's easier to delete / add from the saved route.

 

[wraithnot]

This has already been mentioned up thread. The REx limitations have nothing to do with the white carpool sticker. As long as the car has a tailpipe (CNGVs excepted), it will not be able to get a white sticker no matter how they design it. BMW already said the REx will get a green sticker from the start (even though journalists keep projecting otherwise).

The REx limitations are so that BMW can get ZEV credits, so it's unlikely BMW will make any changes to it, unless the BEVx criteria is redesigned.

I looked into this a bit and I agree the limitation has everything to do with the BEVx criteria: Green Car Congress: California’s new ZEV rule introduces the BEVx; ARB staff expects these vehicles to play a longer-term role than plug-in hybrids
But it looks like it will also increase the California rebate from $1,500 to $2,500: 2014 BMW i3 Range-Extended Model Gets Full $2,500 CA Rebate For Electric Cars

It's a pity BMW limited the car in this way just to get the BEVx classification since it would have been a much more capable car without the REx restriction.

 

[Electroman]

As for adaptive cruise, it works well at slow speeds, even down to 0 MPH and will fully stop the car smoothly. It's like having a tractor beam tied to the car ahead. In the US it won't "go" forward on it's own after a full stop unless you nudge the accelerator a bit, then it will speed match the car in front.

This is so cool. I want one but not at that price.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I test drove an I3 yesterday.

Interesting material use on the interior but something seems like it is just very well placed artistically.

poking out screens are a bit odd

what is the center of gravity height? I can't find it anywhere. swerving back and forth in the I3 makes it feel like it wants to roll, they said that I was the only one who said that and others have the opposite reaction...hmm

acceleration is a bit weaker than I expected. They claim that the I3 is the quickest 0-40 car BMW produces. that sucks. (or at 1/2 battery it was extra weak?)

they really don't know much about their cars. asked the voltage of the battery and power of motor. someone was trying to tell me 22kW but 18 usable. I asked how accel differs with voltage sag or at a lower SOC with less available Voltage. they know nothing of this and said it is the same always.

seating position is decent + rear seat space was good an you could probably fit 2 large dogs in the back w/ seats down.

looks better in person from the rear/side but front is just kind of bad.

 

[DaveT]

what is the center of gravity height? I can't find it anywhere. swerving back and forth in the I3 makes it feel like it wants to roll, they said that I was the only one who said that and others have the opposite reaction...hmm

That was my biggest complaint when I test drove the i3. When you swerve back and forth the car seems unstable and like it's going to roll. I'm sure the extra thin tires don't help.