Tesla Wall Connector - Type B / Type A-EV RCD

[MrBadger]

Or £114 inc vat and delivery
Type B RCD / RCCB 40A for EV Charge Point Installations. 4 pole, 3 phase or single phase, 30ma, EKL1-63
They also do the above in a twin 40/20A MCB enclosure for £179.

63A is more than adequate but a useful size if adding other circuits, such as a 13/16A backup circuit. For a dedicated circuit, 40A is ample.

 

[moa999]

that's a type AC RCD, type B MCB, NOT a type B RCD. the B refers to the MCB. Type B RCBO's are a completely different thing thatn a Type B RCD, there is a lot of people making this mistake.

Think the bigger problem is in the global regs allowing this confusion to occur on devices that are naturally combined.

Surely the above device should be referred as an AC/B RCBO.

Whereas under the regs you need a B/A or B/AC RCBO for a Tesla HPWC install. For a Zappi an A/A or A/AC would be sufficient.

Seeing a lot of this in Australia as well where proper Type Bs are also expensive and people just go for the cheapest quote.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Type ACs just shouldn't be used at all now, IMHO. A lot of domestic electrical equipment has switched mode power supplies now, everything from inverter controlled washing machine motors through to phone chargers. Pulsating DC earth leakage is now a pretty likely fault condition, and one that a type AC RCD (or RCBO) probably won't detect. Type A RCDs/RCBOs are pretty much the same price as Type AC ones, so just outlawing type ACs wouldn't have any significant impact on costs.

I think the use of type letters for both the time to trip vs overload current for MCBs and for the earth leakage characteristics of an RCD/RCBO needs to be changed. Changing one to a numerical designation would removed the confusion, especially given that the majority of standard domestic MCBs and RCBO will have a type B overload/time characteristic.

 

[moa999]

Was going to suggest that too, but probably too late now. Even using different letter sets (eg F,G)

 

[Neilda]

£154 was the best I found:

235986 & PKNM-32/1N/B/003-PT-DW | Eaton 1+N Pole Type B Residual Current Circuit Breaker with Overload Protection, 32A Concept, 10 kA | RS Components

I have just been through the whole Type A/Type B RCD and, as 'arg' commented above, many (if not most) are currently mis-labelled. Anything under about £120 and it won't (currently) be a Type B.

 

[MrBadger]

£154 was the best I found:

235986 & PKNM-32/1N/B/003-PT-DW | Eaton 1+N Pole Type B Residual Current Circuit Breaker with Overload Protection, 32A Concept, 10 kA | RS Components

Are you sure its Type B RCD? Just the wavy line icon that I can see so no indication of DC protection.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I'm still waiting for the O=PEN devices to drop in price so I can fit one. Have the proper RCD etc. now (upgrading an old install that was simply a type A, done before anyone cared about these things). I can't see with a paved driveway that an earth spike is viable.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

£154 was the best I found:

235986 & PKNM-32/1N/B/003-PT-DW | Eaton 1+N Pole Type B Residual Current Circuit Breaker with Overload Protection, 32A Concept, 10 kA | RS Components

I have just been through the whole Type A/Type B RCD and, as 'arg' commented above, many (if not most) are currently mis-labelled. Anything under about £120 and it won't (currently) be a Type B.

That's a Type AC RCD characteristic, not Type B, and not suitable for use with a charge point, and arguably not really suitable for use at all now, should really be a Type A as a minimum. The Type B refers to the MCB overload characteristic part of the device. The easy way to check is to look at the symbols on the front of the device.

The cheapest Type B RCD seems to be the £114 one sold by this place: Type B RCD / RCCB 40A for EV Charge Point Installations. 2 pole, single phase, 30ma. 40 Amp

 

[Neilda]

Are you sure its Type B RCD? Just the wavy line icon that I can see so no indication of DC protection.

My electrician is sure (it's sensitive to pulsating DC).... he rejected about 3 other RCD's that I had found online, but was happy with that one and fitted it. This subject is definitely above my pay grade as I don't fully understand it... I realised the regs have changed and my electrician is, obviously, fully up to speed. He put new cabling in to my garage with a 40 amp trip at the house end and a separate 32 amp trip (the one linked) on a separate and dedicated unit at the garage end. We looked at quite a few RCD's that claimed to be Type B - this one was chosen.

 

[arg]

Are you sure its Type B RCD? Just the wavy line icon that I can see so no indication of DC protection.

Sadly you are right. You can't rely on photos as often websites use one photo for many different parts in a range rather than being specifically the one you are buying, so the only way to be really sure is to get the part number of what you are buying and go to the actual manufacturer's specifications, in this case here:

235986 | Eaton Moeller series xPole - PKN6/M RCBO - residual-current circuit breaker with overcurrent protection | Eaton

which indeed confirms "residual current circuit-breaker trip characteristic: AC".

It appears Eaton do make a Type-A version (suitable for use with chargepoints with internal DC detection), but no Type-B. Indeed, I'm not aware of a Type-B RCBO from any manufacturer.

 

[Neilda]

I will get him to look at it again following comments here.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I'm still waiting for the O=PEN devices to drop in price so I can fit one. Have the proper RCD etc. now (upgrading an old install that was simply a type A, done before anyone cared about these things). I can't see with a paved driveway that an earth spike is viable.

Not hard to install a earth electrode through paving. I've installed one through the 6 inch thick concrete of my garage floor, no harder than banging one in anywhere else once a hole was drilled, and Ra came out well within the acceptable limit.

 

[arg]

BTW, I notice that the price of the Type-EV has come down from outrageous to merely rather pricy: Doepke DFS4-040-2/0.03 A-EV 2P 40A 30mA Type A-EV RCCB

I've always thought these a better fit to the actual requirement (they comprise in effect a Type-A RCD and the 6mA pure DC detection in one unit), since they limit pure DC to 6mA (compared to the 30mA nominal of the Type-B) and so avoid blocking of anything upstream.

 

[phil4]

Not hard to install a earth electrode through paving. I've installed one through the 6 inch thick concrete of my garage floor, no harder than banging one in anywhere else once a hole was drilled, and Ra came out well within the acceptable limit.

Knowing how my garage was built, I doubt I've a long enough drill bit to get through to something earth like. I went with the Veridian EVSE control centre - so does the OPEN and DC detection in box.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I will get him to look at it again following comments here.

The best way to be sure is to ignore the advertising words and look at the symbols on the front of the device. A single sine wave symbol (in a box, to the right of the lever), as on the front of that device, indicates that it's a Type AC RCD characteristic, so only reliable on AC earth leakage, not pulsating or DC leakage:

This is a photo I've just taken of a Type B RCD (one of the £114 ones linked to earlier), showing the full range of symbols that indicate that this unit can work in the presence of AC, pulsating AC, DC and high frequency signals:

 

[RedMod3]

Another one here, in a box for £115.

Electric Vehicle Charger Protection B Type DC RCD c/w 40A MCB WEVKIT63 : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Electric Vehicle Charger Protection B Type DC RCD c/w 40A MCB WEVKIT63.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[RedMod3]

Another one here, in a box for £115.

Electric Vehicle Charger Protection B Type DC RCD c/w 40A MCB WEVKIT63 : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Electric Vehicle Charger Protection B Type DC RCD c/w 40A MCB WEVKIT63.

www.amazon.co.uk

Just ordered one and the price dropped to £103.50. I can't tell if it will take 100A tails, but I will know tomorrow when it comes.

 

[tezcatcatl]

I've read the whole topic but I couldn't really come to a conclusion..
Type B is the new standard. Type A used to be OK.

Now, I bought a Tesla wall charger, 3x32A.
I am going to get it installed. No standard requirements in the country it will be installed.
And no certified / experienced installers.

Would I be risking my family's life, our house, if I use a TYPE A instead of TYPE B 3x40A RCD?

 

[MrBadger]

The TYPE B protects from DC faults and the car has a high voltage DC battery.

 

[tezcatcatl]

The TYPE B protects from DC faults and the car has a high voltage DC battery.

Yes I know that, but that doesn't really answer my question.
Are everyone who had a Type A installed before the change of regulations / recommendations are under a life threatening risk now?

Also, I read in the manual, the Wall Connected has an integrated GFCI (Ground fault interrupter) circuit:
"For maximum power output, install a standard double pole 60 amp circuit breaker. Wall Connector includes integrated GFCI protection - do not install a GFCI circuit breaker."

So, if the wall connector has a GFCI circuit inside, why do we need an extra RCD (residual current device) installed?
Aren't they basically the same thing, with different names? US and Canada calling it GFCI, UK calling it RCD?