Great for Tesla indeed. then they get to resell all the same features over and over again every time the car changes hands if the next owner wants them he'd have to pay for them all over again to get them enabled.
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Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]
- Thread starter MS-Alec
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- class action fsd fsdc
Great for Tesla indeed. then they get to resell all the same features over and over again every time the car changes hands if the next owner wants them he'd have to pay for them all over again to get them enabled.
That is not how it happened according to the fellow involved, the dealer, and according to Tesla. They removed the software after the car was sold at auction. You can see more details from the person involved here: Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here?
Well, up until now the options belonged to the car. Tesla does not let the owner take their software purchases with them to the next car. No one signs software license agreements that the software disappears when you sell the car.
DeanP
Member
IS there a law against this? So, we're just leasing the software? Pretty expensive lease. I have AP not FSD. I'm not in a financial position to re-purchase software nor can I recoup the expense. Are there terms and condition when purchasing this software? Is it in the fine print somewhere? FSD is definitely off the table for me now.
The “rando” was advised by folks here to take his story to Jalopnik vs one of the more Tesla friendly outlets.
And there is tons of documentation in the article, I am guessing you didn’t actually read it.
Since Tesla owned the car in between the original owner and auction. Don’t they have the right to remove what they want.
Think of a car that has 21” wheels and they swap them to 19” before sending it to auction. Does that mean the buyer can look at the original window sticker and say he was robbed? Shouldn’t be any different for software options.
So the real question is if it was sold at auction with the buyer (used car dealer) confirming it had FSD (at that time - not just when it was new) and it was removed later. Like my wheel example, they can’t come to your house and swap the wheels after you bought it with 21” wheels.
Think of a car that has 21” wheels and they swap them to 19” before sending it to auction. Does that mean the buyer can look at the original window sticker and say he was robbed? Shouldn’t be any different for software options.
So the real question is if it was sold at auction with the buyer (used car dealer) confirming it had FSD (at that time - not just when it was new) and it was removed later. Like my wheel example, they can’t come to your house and swap the wheels after you bought it with 21” wheels.
DeanP
Member
No way to recoup the cost. And you cannot advertise AP nor FSD when selling a Tesla. Damn...
There are not terms and conditions. I have not seen any fine print regarding AP and FSD when I bought my car.
DeanP
Member
I understand what you're saying and you're right. When Tesla received the car and "put" it back into the shop for a 30 point inspection, they have every rights to do as they wish with the car. But, if I sell the car with FSD will Tesla remove it once they realize the new owner did not purchase FSD? IMO that is not fair nor right.
If your car was advertised to have AP, then you have a case against the person who sold it to you. Tesla does not have an official policy that software expires upon transfer. The only cases where this has come up has been cars that passed back through Tesla via auction at this point. We haven’t seen any straight private party sales where AP didn’t transfer.
I don’t think this is the case. But, obviously Tesla needs to clarify. You can ask them your question at [email protected]
Eno Deb
Active Member
Of course. But they can't sell the car with the feature intact, listed on the Monroney sticker, with no indication that it's somehow not included in the price, and then yank it after selling the car. We know that EAP and FSD where enabled at the time of the sale because the documented date of Tesla's "audit" was after the auction.
DeanP
Member
The dealer I purchased it from stated it has AP. They also stated all Teslas come with AP. When I realized I did not have AP, I assumed it referred to the safety awareness of the car. Can someone clarify for me?
I don't know any of that. But I do know there are going to be a lot of unanswered questions going forward as to how this is going to shake out. How about someone that paid for full self driving on a car but the functionality never came to fruition during the time the gentleman had the car and he has since sold it or traded it. Does the next owner get full self-driving features on that car that was paid for by the previous owner? I don't know. To me the whole thing is just a mess. Made so by Tesla themselves it wouldn't have taken much to have clear-cut directives and a plan going forward when this stuff was done. Personally my opinion is the selling of features that don't yet work on promissory conditions on Tesla's part was just a money grab for people that were dumb enough to spend the money to do it. not realizing that maybe they won't even have the car long enough to see this stuff actually work.
Eno Deb
Active Member
If the car was advertised as having AP and didn't, that's fraud and you should take it up with the seller.
It's true that all new Teslas today have the basic Autopilot (which is essentially Traffic Aware Cruise Control and Lane Keeping). But cars built before March 2019 did not. Back then you had to buy the EAP package, which is no longer offered today.
Take that plus the moving of features from EAP into FSD, while also taking money to upgrade from EAP to FSD combined with extended delivery timescale of FSD features..... Talk about smoke and mirrors. More like just smoke.
Sell you something you already had, but that you can't get, then tell you that you never had it, and even if you did, you must buy it again if you want to keep using it. And if you try to sell it, it just disappears anyways.
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All Teslas after about March 2019 come with basic AP. If your car was manufactured before then, AP was a paid option.
DeanP
Member
I purchased my 2018 M3P last summer. I'm sure the dealer was referring to basic AP, although did not refer to it that way. In my mind it was AP as we think of it today. Their name changing is confusing and somewhat misleading. I sometimes wonder if it's intentional.
dark cloud
Active Member
^ I agree with this: It is no different then Tesla selling my car with the 19 cyclones. A person can't come back after buying it from Tesla (or anywhere else) and say since it has 21 turbines on the Monroney he can demand those wheels.
Yet the claim above is the same as a customer buys a car from Tesla with 21 Arachnids in December, and then wakes up one morning in January and finds the car in the driveway with 19 slipstreams, and his neighbour tells him in the middle of the night Tesla mobile came and changed them out. It seems that is wrong, but if the paperwork did in fact state he was buying a car with the 19 slipstreams, does that make it right?
Yes, Tesla changes stuff all the time. The changing of the packages was confusing, but was probably done with Teslas bottom line in mind vs the used car market. They needed to sell more FSD packages, and up until that point, there were zero features in the FSD package. It was just a gamble on a future promise.
Unfortunately, you have to be a pretty informed buyer in the used car world as a large percentage of dealers selling used Teslas have no idea what the options are and how they changed.
I am so sorry but Jalopnik is 100% accurate. I am the OP, and I do have all the required proofs. It is very simple - Tesla sold the car at the auction without mentioning removing EAP/FSD (have a doc) on 11/15, 3 days later "conducted the audit" (have a doc), in December Tesla sent the software update and removed those options (have a doc), this happened while I put a deposit for the car, the dealer sold the car to me, and I realized those options are gone after I have signed a bill of sale(yes, very stupid of me).
So, now, tell us please if it is not " a pretty shitty thing to do, a craven attempt to double-dip and get money for the same features every time the car is re-sold." !
The maddening thing that keeps being brought up, is the sentiment that if EAP and FSD weren't paid for when the 3rd party or op bought the car, then that's buyer beware, and Tesla has a loophole in which they are possibly not totally in the wrong.
Let's be clear here.
Tesla was paid for these features. The op posted the Monroney showing where Tesla was paid for these features.
What they are doing by removing software features when they retake possession is legal, but also a disgusting money grab. They have been paid for all of the features they are removing, either expressly or as a sales tactic to move inventory. Included with the car doesn't mean free and shouldn't be a get out of jail free card.
It's such a strange situation to be in. I absolutely love my car, and I've absolutely come to hate the company that made it.
Let's be clear here.
Tesla was paid for these features. The op posted the Monroney showing where Tesla was paid for these features.
What they are doing by removing software features when they retake possession is legal, but also a disgusting money grab. They have been paid for all of the features they are removing, either expressly or as a sales tactic to move inventory. Included with the car doesn't mean free and shouldn't be a get out of jail free card.
It's such a strange situation to be in. I absolutely love my car, and I've absolutely come to hate the company that made it.
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