The future of CHADEMO in Australia

[resolve03]

Ampol dedicating 50% of their plugs to a dying charging standard is mental.

They are doing it because that's what they need to do for funding.

Some asshat higher up failed to do 2 minutes of research and now we are rolling out bullshit which will need to be ripped out eventually.

It's like the entire NBN debacle all over again, rolling out old technology that needs to be replaced years later

 

[BreatheSafe]

They are doing it because that's what they need to do for funding.

Some asshat higher up failed to do 2 minutes of research and now we are rolling out bullshit which will need to be ripped out eventually.

It's like the entire NBN debacle all over again, rolling out old technology that needs to be replaced years later

Lets have some perspective - The fund as it stands is almost $250 million and includes other fuels. The NBN cost is well over $50 billion.

 

[[Zombie]]

Some asshat higher up failed to do 2 minutes of research

Asshats failing to do research is how we ended up with CCS1 on many of the first fast chargers in the country.

I don't think installing CHAdeMO compares to that.

 

[positiv]

Of course. But Governments also have a duty to not disadvantage minorities and to make reasonable efforts to support everyone in the target pool for any given initiative.

I bought a Gen 1 Leaf in 2014 and from the start they all had CHAdeMO ports. Only some grey imports might not have them, it was an option overseas but not here, where DC charging was standard.

Mine is certainly still on the road (my wife drives it to work everyday) and I hope it is good for another 10 years.

Even if all the Leafs are still on the road, Chademo would still only make up ~5% of the BEV plug market.

You realise it's absurd to spend public money supporting a standard that charges just 5% of EV's, right? It's basically pork barrelling for Nissan.
Especially when that standard is EOL. And that number is shrinking rapidly with each new shipment of Model 3's/Model Y's/Atto 3's/Polestars etc.

The nasty consequence of this is that at two-plug charging stations (i.e. Ampol) it ends up reserving half of DC chargers for a standard that the vast majority of EV drivers cannot use, leaving just a single CCS2 plug. We are going to see long queues at that CCS2 plug. This is going to significantly impact the profitability of these chargers. Ampol will be ripping out Chademo as soon as they can, as putting in a second CCS2 will double their earning potential.

 

[Chuq]

My understanding is that Nissan has only sold ~2000 Leafs here.

Doesn't take into account a stack of grey imports, so probably double that number at least.

Of which not all of them have DC ports.

I haven't seen one in Australia (photo or real-life) that doesn't.

For some real life context, data from one charging network with mostly regional locations shows about 10% of usage is Chademo.

 

[Chuq]

We are going to see long queues at that CCS2 plug.

That assumes these chargers are the only ones that exist. Consider how densely packed all the ARENA chargers will be, why are all these drivers of cars with 300+ km range going to be queuing at Ampol instead of going to an Evie site 5 km down the road?

The reality is they won't "rip out Chademo", they'll just install a second unit with 2x CCS2 plugs.

 

[cafz]

It's like the entire NBN debacle all over again, rolling out old technology that needs to be replaced years later

It's not that bad. Changing a 1xCCS2 + 1xCHAdeMO charger to a 2xCCS2 charger, should they want to, is in most cases just changing the cable and reconfiguring the software on the charger. The vast majority of the infrastructure isn't impacted at all (a large proportion of the infrastructure required is the power supply to the charger anyway).

 

[positiv]

For some real life context, data from one charging network with mostly regional locations shows about 10% of usage is Chademo.

Ok then. Should we be mandating a charging plug that can only be used by 10% of EVs?
I say no.

 

[Chuq]

Ok then. Should we be mandating a charging plug that can only be used by 10% of EVs?

No-one is mandating anything.

Some grants require both Chademo and CCS2. Some grants don't. If you're not getting a grant you can install what you want.

 

[Lachlan Smith]

The reality is they won't "rip out Chademo", they'll just install a second unit with 2x CCS2 plugs.

The reality is this is what should have been installed in the first place. We are seeing so many new installs with 1 CCS2 plug that the second person who turns up ends up leaving or has to wait. As for Alexandria, there are better options in the area if you have the time to use AC charging. With the AMPOL charging money from tomorrow, the pricing should incentivise people to go back to nearby AC "destination charging" if they don't need the faster charging speed.

 

[moa999]

As for Alexandria, there are better options in the area if you have the time to use AC charging.

Alexandria usage I expect to drop considerably.

If you are happy to spend 60c/kWh you'd go to the much faster chargers (particularly for 400V cars) at/near East Village (Chargefox and Audi).
And you've also got South Eveleigh 50kW nearby.

 

[positiv]

No-one is mandating anything.

Some grants require both Chademo and CCS2. Some grants don't. If you're not getting a grant you can install what you want.

Call it what you like. The reality is that arena grants are only paid when you install a chademo and ccs2. Spending public money to expand the Chademo network at this stage in the game when it has clearly been abandoned by automobile manufacturers makes no sense.

Dont get me wrong - I like the Nissan Leaf. It’s a lovely EV and Chademo is a great technology. But then so was Betamax.