The M3 terrifies BMW

[EaglesPDX]

Once more, 'status' is of no consequence because it is vain, insubstantial, and ephemeral -- therefore inconsequential.

Yet it is responsible for likely 10-20% of Tesla sales and for other expensive, "performance" EV's like BMW's i8. The T3 will make the Tesla "common" and even further boost the sales of expensive status conveying plug in hybrids like the 300e and i8.

What boosted sales of high end hybrids is automotive marketing executives learning that most Prius buyers were formerly Lexus owners.

What boosted sales of high end hybrids was people with money and need for status and who wanted to cut their GHG emissions. The two are not mutually exclusive as we see with even the Prius whose demographic is higher income, higher education level.

And don't leave out government regulations which required automakers to come up with low emission vehicles, lent Tesla money to get started, provided tax incentives etc.

But this topic is why are a small group of Teslerati so terrified of BMW using the long wait for the T3 to sell BMW's 300e? 300e is a plug-in hybrid that a person could use to cut their GHG by 80% while having the status of an expensive car, "performance" and the range and refuel security of an ICE. To the torch bearing Teslerati this is apostasy, the 300e a tool of the devil and other various purity of EV faith issues.

Someone who is going to buy a car now and who chooses the low emissions BMW 300e is making a choice that supports Tesla's mission "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport ". BMW300e does just that.

 

[scaesare]

...people with ... need for status.

Man, you've said this a bunch in this thread. I think you've single-handedly brought up "status" in this thread more than I've seen in all the other threads on this forum combined in the 3.5 years I've been on it.

At this point I'm reading your posts primarily for entertainment value... but I suspect I know why the BMW thing is such a hot button for you now.

 

[jerry33]

And don't leave out government regulations which required automakers to come up with low emission vehicles, lent Tesla money to get started, provided tax incentives etc.

Of course Ford got ~$6B out of that same program and we got the Ford Focus EV for it and no money back for 24 years. Imagine what Tesla could have done with $6B

 

[MassModel3]

Man, you've said this a bunch in this thread. I think you've single-handedly brought up "status" in this thread more than I've seen in all the other threads on this forum combined in the 3.5 years I've been on it.

At this point I'm reading your posts primarily for entertainment value... but I suspect I know why the BMW thing is such a hot button for you now.

I really considered saying nearly that exact same thing, but I decided not to because, as Ron White pointed out, there's some things you just can't fix.

And after all...
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[ecarfan]

The T3 is already helping to boost sales of plug-in hybrids from other mfg...

Pure speculation based on no evidence. There is no rational way to connect Tesla's announcement of the Model 3 five months ago to an increase in plug-in hybrid sales.

You will find no literature from Tesla Motors that advocates 'reducing' emissions from vehicles over eliminating them entirely.

I agree. @CuriousG also pointed out that @EaglesPDX does not appear to understand what Tesla Motors mission actually is.

[status] is responsible for likely 10-20% of Tesla sales...

More speculation based on no data. Repeatedly making stuff up does nothing to support your erroneous position, nor does your repeated and heavy-handed use of sarcasm to disparage posts by others. Try supporting your position using facts and rational analysis, if possible.

 

[AustinPowers]

Fascinating to see this thread has managed over 23 pages even though everyone here seems to agree on the premise - except for EaglesPDX that is. If it wasn't for him and his aggressive ranting posts every now and then, this thread would have been dead long ago.
So yes, I too read his posts for pure entertainment value because none of it can be taken seriously - other than the notion that more PHEVs now is better for the environment than more ICEs. But that's hardly a revelation now is it?

Oh and @EaglesPDX: I am German, Bavarian even. As you can see from my Avatar, I currently drive a BMW. I have always been a big fan of BMW, friends of mine work for BMW. So in essence, I am as pro-BMW from every angle as you can probably get.
Yet even I think that
a) these BMW commercials are crap and total bull****
b) BMW indeed seems very scared by Tesla's success
c) BMW doesn't seem to have a clue about how important BEVs will become - especially in contrast to Mercedes, VW and Audi, who have made the change to BEVs a high priority goal on their agenda, and seem really eager to get it right this time.
No commitment like that at all from BMW at the moment. Yes, the i3 is available with a bigger battery now. But is still an impractical, fugly excuse for a BEV. Honestly, if I wanted a good allrounder BEV in that price range, I would buy the e-Golf.

And no, as much as I love my 3-series BMW, I would never - ever - dream of buying a 330e. Because it
a) is totally overpriced (status by the way is not defined by buying overpriced goods, it is defined by showing that you are able to afford goods that, though maybe expensive, are worth their price - the 330e is not)
b) offers an EV-only range that is smaller than my daily one-way commute
c) has a real-life MPG that is far from what you quoted.

MPG ratings by the manufacturers are, as we have seen too many times in recent history, not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Where are you going with this? Some EV failures will leave you without heat, some will leave full heating available.

Some ICE failures will leave you without heat, some will leave nearly full heating available.

I'd argue that it's much more likely to have an ICE problem that leaves you stranded without heat, given how integrated the heating is with the engine and the lower reliability of the parts involved.

Where was I going with this?

I was talking about range. See my post from earlier:

The M3 terrifies BMW

Someone suggested that I trade in my MS for a leaf to hold me over till the 3 arrives. I'm not sure where your ICE comparison comes from.

 

[Chopr147]

I love this post. Here is the thing, though: as much as I agree with your sentiments, I like Tesla/SC/SpaceX/GF the company even more.

Where the hell did my cynical, oldish guy attitude walk off to ?

This hits a spot for me. 53 years old and usually little patience for the phoniness that accompanies auto dealerships. I do not let them push me into a deal I am not happy with and generally feel ripped off anyway when I leave the showroom. And yet I love Tesla sales rep.'s and the company in general. It's an odd feeling for me.

 

[Chopr147]

I do feel like I belong to an exclusive club, knowing what we know... knowing how clueless the rest of the world is to something so big, so revolutionary... knowing that the skeptics will soon be silenced... knowing that no other company comes close to Tesla... knowing that I'm already in line to receive one of the world's most advanced and superior products in the very near future... knowing that I'm about to experience the Tesla grin, daily! Quite a privilege!

Very well said. With an S on order I will soon be driving a tech. marvel

 

[RubberToe]

If you want to be 'Rich and BALLIN'...

I have to start working this phrase into my normal vocabulary. Always learning new stuff here on TMC!

RT

 

[david_42]

Usually you advertise what you are weakest at. Examples: High quality, because otherwise people would just assume your products had that characteristic. A real estate development named Sunny Valley is likely to be located in a fog belt.

So very true. When I lived in Nevada, there was a development called The Lakes, it had a couple of concrete puddles that were ideal breeding grounds for mosquitoes. They attempted to control them with larvae-eating fish, but the heat killed the fish as fast as they could be stocked.

Not impressed with BMWs efforts. I've been waiting a decade, a few more years is no problem.

 

[CuriousG]

Man, you've said this a bunch in this thread. I think you've single-handedly brought up "status" in this thread more than I've seen in all the other threads on this forum combined in the 3.5 years I've been on it.

At this point I'm reading your posts primarily for entertainment value... but I suspect I know why the BMW thing is such a hot button for you now.

I thought it was obvious now. He has P'ness envy. Errrr P90.

 

[Red Sage]

God. After the FABULOUS POST by @AnxietyRanger , I thought for certain I'd be done with this thread... So much for that idea.

Yet it is responsible for likely 10-20% of Tesla sales and for other expensive, "performance" EV's like BMW's i8.

Please, do provide verification for that percentage. Also, take note that the BMW i8 currently outsells the 330e by around 4:1. Just as the Tesla Model S outsells the Nissan LEAF by more than 2:1. Could be that people who enjoy 'status' have better things to do with their money?

The T3 will make the Tesla "common" and even further boost the sales of expensive status conveying plug in hybrids like the 300e and i8.

Uhm... No. The BMW 330e will probably be canceled before the Model ☰ arrives on the market. BMW has to do... BETTER. They have already announced the i3 will be BETTER.

What boosted sales of high end hybrids was people with money and need for status and who wanted to cut their GHG emissions. The two are not mutually exclusive as we see with even the Prius whose demographic is higher income, higher education level.

That's funny. Most Prius owners say that as gasoline went over four bucks a gallon they simply got fed up with gas guzzling behemoths. It doesn't take much education to realize that you'd rather spend your hard earned money on lunch than gasoline.

And don't leave out government regulations which required automakers to come up with low emission vehicles, lent Tesla money to get started, provided tax incentives etc.

You mean the regulations that have been in place for forty years and regularly strengthened? I'm pretty sure that those weren't a surprise to anyone. Yet, they still continued to build gas guzzling behemoths that blew smoke.

Tesla Motors had already been 'started' by private investors, and further funding by way of an IPO on the stock market. Elon Musk has said multiple times that the company would have managed to release the Model S even without the loan they got from the Department of Energy. And the tax incentives were in place before Tesla Motors was even founded. It's just that it was 'understood' that none of the traditional automobile manufacturers would earnestly take advantage of them to actually expand the presence of alternative fuel vehicles in any meaningful manner.

But this topic is why are a small group of Teslerati so terrified of BMW using the long wait for the T3 to sell BMW's 300e? 300e is a plug-in hybrid that a person could use to cut their GHG by 80% while having the status of an expensive car, "performance" and the range and refuel security of an ICE. To the torch bearing Teslerati this is apostasy, the 300e a tool of the devil and other various purity of EV faith issues.

In Los Angeles it is rare that someone has a daily commute of less than 7 miles one way. You keep using GHG -- izzat Greenhouse Gas Emissions? Howzabout you stop making up percentages and stuff, eh? There is no fear involved -- fear is the mind killer. Oh, wait... That's your problem!

Someone who is going to buy a car now and who chooses the low emissions BMW 300e is making a choice that supports Tesla's mission "to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport ". BMW300e does just that.

The BMW 330e slows progress by being even worse than the BMW i3 at about the same price point. That is not frightening. It is saddening.

 

[03DSG]

What I don't get is why anyone bothers to respond to EaglesPDX at all............It's a total waste of life.

 

[gregd]

The BMW 330e slows progress by being even worse than the BMW i3 at about the same price point. That is not frightening. It is saddening.

Well said. With such an anemic electric propulsion system, and lacking an AER sufficient to cover a full day or two of travel, the gas side is going to be used quite heavily.

My concern (prediction) is that most of the 330e's will stop being plugged in at all within 6 months of purchase. Why have the hassle to plug in AND gas up? Yes, it only takes seconds, but plug-in is optional (as stated in the commercial). Why bother?

In my opinion, in creating and pushing the 330e, BMW is doing a disservice to the planet and intentionally misleading (abusing?) its customer base to that end. Sad, indeed.

 

[MassModel3]

What I don't get is why anyone bothers to respond to EaglesPDX at all............It's a total waste of life.

I'm thinking you may be correct... I just want to get in a few more jabs first, Coach!

It's kinda like boxing against some of the greats of the past -- if you stepped into the ring with Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali, expect to get hit. Meanwhile, Tyson and Ali were just in it for the sparring practice.

I think that's what's happening here -- someone with an inferior argument is swinging wildly (and missing horribly), while those who know what they're talking about just keep punching him in his proverbial face.

 

[SageBrush]

I'll be happy to be wrong, but the 330e feels to me like a HOV play/compliance vehicle for the US, perhaps a tax reduction vehicle for the UK.

 

[S'toon]

You know, I'd have had more respect for BMW if they had made these two ads for the i3, not the 330e.

 

[PaulusdB]

In Germany the taxpayers (together with BMW, Daimler and VAG) give a € 3K cashback bonus to every BMW PHEV buyer.

I'll be happy to be wrong, but the 330e feels to me like a HOV play/compliance vehicle for the US, perhaps a tax reduction vehicle for the UK.

 

[SageBrush]

In Germany the taxpayers (together with BMW, Daimler and VAG) give a € 3K cashback bonus to every BMW PHEV buyer.

Thanks.

Does the 3k Euro cover the incremental cost of the car over a straight ICE version ?