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Thoughts about Autopilot 2.0

How satisfied are you with Autopilot 2.0?


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    146
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Hi everyone,

So I've been feeling a bit confused and perhaps borderline irritated at hearing some news about AP 2.5 or 2.1 whatever people are calling it. Regardless, it is a version of AP that is apparently more advanced than 2.0 because of better hardware and computing power that will enable newer Teslas to be ride-sharing-autonomy capable and more. Thats great. I am a big believer in Tesla and LOVE Elon's vision on sustainable energy and the extreme advancements these vehicles are showcasing to the rest of the auto industry. That is the reason I spent my hard earned money on a Model S last year and love every minute and second of driving my car. Except.....EXCEPT for when I try to turn on its "autopilot 2.0" feature.

One full year in and the AP 2.0 is absolute garbage. It is a dumpster fire. When they just released it, it was downright dangerous with its random swerves and hard braking under bridges and overpasses. Over the past few months its gotten better but still nowhere to the point that I find it reliable. I am always extremely cautious while using it and more often than not, 5 minutes into using it, it will do something dumb like swerve between lines or something and I'll invariably just turn it off for peace of mind. I say all this to say and to ask you community members are you happy with AP2.0 in its current version? Because I am not. I find it unreliable and sometimes dangerous. It has done anything but instill confidence in me over the past year.

And the part about Elon that irritates me immensely is that stuff that has already been sold and the promises that were already made to buying customers are still largely unfulfilled. There are quality issues with the cars that are unlike anything in other luxury cars. But one of the biggest features being touted about the 2016 models was AP 2.0. But so many months have gone by and the AP 2.0 is still ridiculously incapable and borderline dangerous. So in spite of this sort of unfulfilled promise when the company already starts to talk about AP 2.5 it leaves a loyal Tesla fan confused and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

How do I continue strongly recommending this car to friends, family, acquaintances, colleagues when I myself feel burnt with this purchase? Don't get me wrong, I do love this car immensely. But one of the biggest reasons I bought a brand new 2016 version and not a pre-owned older one was because it had AP 2.0 hardware. And AP 2.0 unfortunately continues to be the sorest point of this car (apart from door handles that won't work or tail lights that would collect water, the list goes on). The company still hasn't gotten to where it promised AP 2.0 would be. It hasn't' delivered on a key selling feature that people like me spent money on. And instead of correcting its faults and making the AP 2.0 perfect, it seems like Elon has moved on to bigger and better things creating more hype for the media as he always does. Such as AP 2.5 and the Semi and the Roadster 2.0. And of course his latest love child the Model 3.

Please respond and let me know your honest thoughts on your experience with AP 2.0 and what you think about this news about AP 2.5. Does this leave you feeling that AP 2.0 is going be on a distant backburner and the best days of AP 2.0 are behind us and its not going to improve any more? Or do you still feel that in spite of new hardware Tesla will continue to refine AP 2.0 and keep us older customers happy? Idk something tells me that the AP 2.0 crowd isn't priority anymore for Tesla. Correct me if I am wrong in that assumption. Please also take the vote.
 
Had two with AP v1.0 and "upgraded" to two 2017's with AP v2.0 . . . and we find them both far worse than 1.0 on our 2015's.

We know Elon has a lot on his plate these days, but come on, this is just unacceptable: random jerking of the steering wheel, swerving on rolling hills, no apparent "smoothing" functions to something as basic as a lane change? Ditto for the "Gotta get to the new set speed NOW!" when making a minor speed adjustment. Overall, a massive disappointment compared to where we expected to be after nearly a year with our new cars.

We paid $5k for the AP software and we're left surprised at how little improvement there's been; can't imagine how we'd feel if we dropped the full $8k for the FSD!?! (And he should be looking a refund for those that are leasing as they'll likely turn their cars back in before FDS ever shows up.)
 
Unfair combinations in vote. I'm dissatisfied for it not living up to its promises yet but I use it all day and night wherever possible. Its highway performance is mostly good but it's falling far short of its promised features and its urban performance is pretty meh.

This. Use it all the time but not happy with timeline after "expected delivery December 2016" (I'm a Q4 2016 buyer). Hoping they right the ship but its quite a bad taste in an otherwise delectable dish.
 
Tesla (Musk?) underestimated the difficulty in replacing MobilEye's object recognition with Tesla Vision - which is likely why AP2 is still not yet at AP1 levels, and they haven't started to take advantage of the additional sensors present with AP2.

Though, once they've been able to get Vision working, it's likely we'll rapidly see improvement in AP2.

Keep thinking ... maybe the next release ... and still waiting ...
 
Tesla (Musk?) underestimated the difficulty in replacing MobilEye's object recognition with Tesla Vision - which is likely why AP2 is still not yet at AP1 levels, and they haven't started to take advantage of the additional sensors present with AP2.

Though, once they've been able to get Vision working, it's likely we'll rapidly see improvement in AP2.

Keep thinking ... maybe the next release ... and still waiting ...
That's your mistake. Stop expecting quantum leaps any more and enjoy the progressive improvement. Think of it as an exponential function as we asymptote towards perfection.
 
AP2 basically sucks and will never work as advertised. I use it occasionally when alone but never with passengers since they get annoyed by it and I don’t trust it. It’s “a mere children’s toy.”

Tesla sold it to me and everyone else fraudulently since they are hemorrhaging money. It’s part of the irresponsible and unethical Tesla Ponzi scheme built into their culture until they reach profitability.
 
Hi everyone,

So I've been feeling a bit confused and perhaps borderline irritated at hearing some news about AP 2.5 or 2.1 whatever people are calling it. Regardless, it is a version of AP that is apparently more advanced than 2.0 because of better hardware and computing power that will enable newer Teslas to be ride-sharing-autonomy capable and more. Thats great. I am a big believer in Tesla and LOVE Elon's vision on sustainable energy and the extreme advancements these vehicles are showcasing to the rest of the auto industry. That is the reason I spent my hard earned money on a Model S last year and love every minute and second of driving my car. Except.....EXCEPT for when I try to turn on its "autopilot 2.0" feature.

One full year in and the AP 2.0 is absolute garbage. It is a dumpster fire. When they just released it, it was downright dangerous with its random swerves and hard braking under bridges and overpasses. Over the past few months its gotten better but still nowhere to the point that I find it reliable. I am always extremely cautious while using it and more often than not, 5 minutes into using it, it will do something dumb like swerve between lines or something and I'll invariably just turn it off for peace of mind. I say all this to say and to ask you community members are you happy with AP2.0 in its current version? Because I am not. I find it unreliable and sometimes dangerous. It has done anything but instill confidence in me over the past year.

And the part about Elon that irritates me immensely is that stuff that has already been sold and the promises that were already made to buying customers are still largely unfulfilled. There are quality issues with the cars that are unlike anything in other luxury cars. But one of the biggest features being touted about the 2016 models was AP 2.0. But so many months have gone by and the AP 2.0 is still ridiculously incapable and borderline dangerous. So in spite of this sort of unfulfilled promise when the company already starts to talk about AP 2.5 it leaves a loyal Tesla fan confused and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


Please respond and let me know your honest thoughts on your experience with AP 2.0 and what you think about this news about AP 2.5. Does this leave you feeling that AP 2.0 is going be on a distant backburner and the best days of AP 2.0 are behind us and its not going to improve any more? Or do you still feel that in spite of new hardware Tesla will continue to refine AP 2.0 and keep us older customers happy? Idk something tells me that the AP 2.0 crowd isn't priority anymore for Tesla. Correct me if I am wrong in that assumption. Please also take the vote.

I do not believe AP2 will not have the same functionality as AP2.5. So do not feel left behind from the latest. Think of it like phone chips. The new iPhone and Androids have better chips but the older ones still receive the new software and run just fine if heyvarent too old. So hopefully there aren’t too many more changes and we will be fine with AP2.0. Just sucks that it’s taking so long to get full confidence in the AP. Still not there yet.
 
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Posting in the monthly AP2 disappointment thread :rolleyes:

Seriously though, Tesla's AP2 is screwed IMO. I don't think they'll ever reach any level of confidence for the EAP features they described, let alone FSD. I had high high hopes for FSD after Tesla put out those FSD YouTube videos. But now I realize it was a deception.

Also, what is with Elon saying they've figured out the neural network problem? They still can't deal with slopes, and I can't see them EVER solving the slope problem with the AP2 hardware:

 
Hi everyone,

So I've been feeling a bit confused and perhaps borderline irritated at hearing some news about AP 2.5 or 2.1 whatever people are calling it. Regardless, it is a version of AP that is apparently more advanced than 2.0 because of better hardware and computing power that will enable newer Teslas to be ride-sharing-autonomy capable and more. Thats great. I am a big believer in Tesla and LOVE Elon's vision on sustainable energy and the extreme advancements these vehicles are showcasing to the rest of the auto industry. That is the reason I spent my hard earned money on a Model S last year and love every minute and second of driving my car. Except.....EXCEPT for when I try to turn on its "autopilot 2.0" feature.

One full year in and the AP 2.0 is absolute garbage. It is a dumpster fire. When they just released it, it was downright dangerous with its random swerves and hard braking under bridges and overpasses. Over the past few months its gotten better but still nowhere to the point that I find it reliable. I am always extremely cautious while using it and more often than not, 5 minutes into using it, it will do something dumb like swerve between lines or something and I'll invariably just turn it off for peace of mind. I say all this to say and to ask you community members are you happy with AP2.0 in its current version? Because I am not. I find it unreliable and sometimes dangerous. It has done anything but instill confidence in me over the past year.

And the part about Elon that irritates me immensely is that stuff that has already been sold and the promises that were already made to buying customers are still largely unfulfilled. There are quality issues with the cars that are unlike anything in other luxury cars. But one of the biggest features being touted about the 2016 models was AP 2.0. But so many months have gone by and the AP 2.0 is still ridiculously incapable and borderline dangerous. So in spite of this sort of unfulfilled promise when the company already starts to talk about AP 2.5 it leaves a loyal Tesla fan confused and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

How do I continue strongly recommending this car to friends, family, acquaintances, colleagues when I myself feel burnt with this purchase? Don't get me wrong, I do love this car immensely. But one of the biggest reasons I bought a brand new 2016 version and not a pre-owned older one was because it had AP 2.0 hardware. And AP 2.0 unfortunately continues to be the sorest point of this car (apart from door handles that won't work or tail lights that would collect water, the list goes on). The company still hasn't gotten to where it promised AP 2.0 would be. It hasn't' delivered on a key selling feature that people like me spent money on. And instead of correcting its faults and making the AP 2.0 perfect, it seems like Elon has moved on to bigger and better things creating more hype for the media as he always does. Such as AP 2.5 and the Semi and the Roadster 2.0. And of course his latest love child the Model 3.

Please respond and let me know your honest thoughts on your experience with AP 2.0 and what you think about this news about AP 2.5. Does this leave you feeling that AP 2.0 is going be on a distant backburner and the best days of AP 2.0 are behind us and its not going to improve any more? Or do you still feel that in spite of new hardware Tesla will continue to refine AP 2.0 and keep us older customers happy? Idk something tells me that the AP 2.0 crowd isn't priority anymore for Tesla. Correct me if I am wrong in that assumption. Please also take the vote.

I'm finding it very hard to believe you actually own a Tesla - but on the off chance you are real let's have a beer. I'll be in Michigan next week with my AP 2.0 75D. Let's go drive some roads together eh? PM me with contact info.
 
Serious answer to your question is at the end of my reply.

Hi everyone, So I've been feeling a bit confused

I see that.

and perhaps borderline irritated

Got some folks to introduce you to - oops n/m they found you already in this thread.

One full year in and the AP 2.0 is absolute garbage. It is a dumpster fire.

Apparently you forgot to vote in your own poll.

Screen Shot 2017-11-21 at 2.11.35 AM.png


When they just released it, it was downright dangerous with its random swerves and hard braking under bridges and overpasses.

Dangerous is as dangerous does - show us the accident stats and I'll believe your claim. Was it annoying when released? Yes.

Over the past few months its gotten better but still nowhere to the point that I find it reliable. I am always extremely cautious while using it and more often than not, 5 minutes into using it, it will do something dumb like swerve between lines or something and I'll invariably just turn it off for peace of mind.

Video please. Where are you driving it?

I find it unreliable and sometimes dangerous.

Again, let's see some crash stats.

It has done anything but instill confidence in me over the past year.

Try Toastmasters. www.toastmasters.org - if that doesn't help try Landmark Forum (don't forget to pee before the sessions start) - Personal & Professional Growth, Training & Development - Landmark Worldwide

And the part about Elon that irritates me immensely is that stuff that has already been sold and the promises that were already made to buying customers are still largely unfulfilled.

Maybe it's time for his poster to come down from your bedroom ceiling.

There are quality issues with the cars that are unlike anything in other luxury cars.

What issues did/does yours have?

so many months have gone by and the AP 2.0 is still ridiculously incapable and borderline dangerous.

Dangerous eh? Data please. What auto steering system would you rather be driving right now instead of your Tesla? Also what firmware are you on?

AP 2.0 unfortunately continues to be the sorest point of this car

I think you have a hyperbole issue. But if your door handles have problems I'm truly sorry - what happened?

...in spite of this sort of unfulfilled promise when the company already starts to talk about AP 2.5 it leaves a loyal Tesla fan confused and leaves a bad taste in my mouth...it seems like Elon has moved on to bigger and better things...correct me if I am wrong

You are wrong because the hardware differences are minor and the most important one can be quickly swapped (the board housing the brain) - and Tesla has publicly and repeatedly pledged to do so for AP 2.0 customers if it proves necessary to run the FSD software when it is finalized. The analogy to past examples of Elon "moving on" also don't work this time because the entire company's future is being bet on autonomy and vision based at that. Do some reading about neural nets and machine learning - you're clearly not educated on this or on the timeframes involved. You also clearly haven't followed the release patterns and progress of the last 12 months. Tesla has been pumping out performance updates and feature releases for AP 2 at blinding speed despite starting from zero 12 months ago. Elon's marketing promises shouldn't be confused with the reality that the autopilot team's rate of progress is crazy fast - which should give you chills when you think about the larger societal implications of how fast machine learning is improving in all areas. Think about neural net control and reinforcement learning applied not to just the game of Go - but to humanoid robots carrying weapons...

AP "2.5" is simply a diff radar unit and a board that runs more instructions per second. That's all. The code base is the same (am I wrong @verygreen ?) and the fundamental sensor architecture is as well (8 cameras, 1 forward radar, 360 sonar coverage). Also Tesla did not publicize it - somebody found the differences on new cars and made them public. Tesla responded and said it's more like "2.1" - they didn't name it "2.5" or anything at all actually.
 
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That's your mistake. Stop expecting quantum leaps any more and enjoy the progressive improvement. Think of it as an exponential function as we asymptote towards perfection.

Tesla is close to a year late on a 6 month project - to implement enough of Tesla Vision to replace AP1's MobilEye object recognition.

Based on the likely software architecture, the initial AP2 implementation of TACC and AutoSteer are probably using as much of the AP1 source code as possible, with the major difference being Tesla Vision.

And once Vision is doing a better job in recognizing lane lines (which causes unexpected swerving under AutoSteer) or objects in the roadway ahead (which causes TACC to rapidly slow down in the middle of high speed traffic), I do expect AP2 to quickly get better - since the rest of the software has been working reasonably well for AP1.

We're just not there yet.

It's possible we'll never get there - and Tesla made a mistake in assuming they could replace MobilEye with the AP2 sensors and Tesla Vision. Though I don't expect that to happen.

Instead, what we appear to have is a rapid-time-to-market software project that is taking much longer than expected. Tesla isn't the first major company to significantly underestimate the difficulty of new software development. They're pushing the envelope aggressively - and it's not surprising they've missed this one.
 
I am on AP1.0 and felt miserable days after picking up my car and Elon announcing AP2.0 hardware in call cars. A year later, while I am happy to have a very functional AP1.0 car, I am disappointed Tesla hasn't made the progress in AP2.0 as they said they would. My point of posting on this thread is that when Model3s hit the road in volume with drivers like my wife double-click on the EAP wand, it BETTER function. Last thing you want my wife to do is babysit her Model3's erratic road manners, after dropping both kids at school. Tesla fanboy/techie-doodles like us can live through beta software and keep coming to forums, but most M3 users will be normal people who just want the buttons and sticks to function so they can get on with their lives.

So, my take on this is, and I am sure Tesla fully understands this, make EAP work rock solid with current AP2.0/2.5 by the time M3s are sold in volume - which should be 6-9 months from now. If that doesn't happen, Tesla (& us TSLA investors) will be in deep trouble.
 

I have no evidence of it other than it’s over a year now and for me we are not quite at parity. I know others disagree. I used to get very stressed out waiting for every firmware release hoping that would be the one to prove me wrong, but it hasn’t happened yet. At this point I don’t even care and have given up on AP2. I also don’t install the firmware immediately, I wait to see others post on it first beforehand. I can’t let Elon twirl me around anymore on those puppet strings.
 
I am on AP1.0 and felt miserable days after picking up my car and Elon announcing AP2.0 hardware in call cars. A year later, while I am happy to have a very functional AP1.0 car, I am disappointed Tesla hasn't made the progress in AP2.0 as they said they would. My point of posting on this thread is that when Model3s hit the road in volume with drivers like my wife double-click on the EAP wand, it BETTER function. Last thing you want my wife to do is babysit her Model3's erratic road manners, after dropping both kids at school. Tesla fanboy/techie-doodles like us can live through beta software and keep coming to forums, but most M3 users will be normal people who just want the buttons and sticks to function so they can get on with their lives.

So, my take on this is, and I am sure Tesla fully understands this, make EAP work rock solid with current AP2.0/2.5 by the time M3s are sold in volume - which should be 6-9 months from now. If that doesn't happen, Tesla (& us TSLA investors) will be in deep trouble.

AP 2 does not behave erratically any more except under certain very predictable conditions. Go drive it with new firmware - your wife would be just fine in it today.
 
“However, we still expect to achieve full self-driving capability with safety more than twice as good as the average human driver without making any hardware changes to HW 2.0. If this does not turn out to be the case, which we think is highly unlikely, we will upgrade customers to the 2.5 computer at no cost.”

Except 2.5 also has a new radar and allegedly better pedestrian detection, so I hope they are going to upgrade that as well, or will it simply be ok, to kill a few undetected pedestrians in the name of science?
 
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AP 2 does not behave erratically any more except under certain very predictable conditions. Go drive it with new firmware - your wife would be just fine in it today.
Your other thread not so long about AP2.0 improvements (on latest firmware) has given me hope. If more AP2.0 owners come back and report the same/agree with you, that would be wonderful.

10yrs of MobileEye vision processing technology Tesla is trying to do in 1yr - that is a marvelous undertaking and commendable (if they can achieve close to it). It is the false promises on timelines (likely due to underestimating the complexity) that have been most painful to digest.