Total costs of owning Model S in Australia

[Aussie Yank]

On a similar note: sales tax in USA is NOT included

 

[360C]

You would have to be in the worst possible conditions, or drive a very significant distance if you need a 20kw system plus generator to just charge your car.

Our house is fairly large and double story so in the middle of summer you have 2 big A/C units running flat out a lot of the time. That uses a lot of power on its own. Add a car charging on top of that and we hit nearly 20kw of consumption. In the attached screenshot of the monitoring software you can see the car being charged between circa 10.30am and 2pm while both A/C units are running on a very hot day.
Consumption is top graph and solar system generation is bottom graph.

So to be in a true "off-grid" situation you would need a generator to provide the extra power above what a 10kw system generates. In our case we are still connected to mains power and that kicks in to provide any shortfall.

 

[360C]

Just recently, I got my house evaluated for solar power. Seems we would lose at least 50% power due to nearby shading from trees to the north. So if you have large amounts of shading, I could believe it.



I have heard that it is a legal requirement that the solar/battery system shut itself down if the grid goes down. This is to prevent pushing power into the grid when people are trying to repair broken cables and electrocuting them. Apparently it is possible to have a switch automatically shut off the power to the grid if the grid goes down, however last I heard (this was several years ago now so possibly dated) none been approved in Australia.

In the event of a power failure the system disconnects from the grid for the reasons that you stated. Not sure what the situation was years ago; but you can definitely do it now. We ran a test in mild weather last year where we disconnected from the grid and the house ran solely from the solar system and 24kw battery backups for circa 4 days before we lost power.

 

[Brian May]

In the event of a power failure the system disconnects from the grid for the reasons that you stated. Not sure what the situation was years ago; but you can definitely do it now. We ran a test in mild weather last year where we disconnected from the grid and the house ran solely from the solar system and 24kw battery backups for circa 4 days before we lost power.

Good to know.

Thanks for this pictures. Looks like you need a fair bit of room (and wall space) for the full battery solution, something that would be challenging for my house .

I would assume that battery systems might Powerwall and zcell might help at least a little bit here... However imagine you would still need the room for the inverters, chargers, switchboards, etc. Would be really good however for the occasion when the power does really go down for almost a week due a tree falling over power lines.

 

[paulp]

Our house is fairly large and double story so in the middle of summer you have 2 big A/C units running flat out a lot of the time. That uses a lot of power on its own. Add a car charging on top of that and we hit nearly 20kw of consumption. In the attached screenshot of the monitoring software you can see the car being charged between circa 10.30am and 2pm while both A/C units are running on a very hot day.
Consumption is top graph and solar system generation is bottom graph.

So to be in a true "off-grid" situation you would need a generator to provide the extra power above what a 10kw system generates. In our case we are still connected to mains power and that kicks in to provide any shortfall.

The comment was made that 20kw system was needed just to charge the car. My comment was that you dont need a 20kw system to charge a tesla. I absolutely agree that for a large house 20kw system is probably not even close.

 

[paulp]

In the event of a power failure the system disconnects from the grid for the reasons that you stated. Not sure what the situation was years ago; but you can definitely do it now. We ran a test in mild weather last year where we disconnected from the grid and the house ran solely from the solar system and 24kw battery backups for circa 4 days before we lost power.

Grid disconnected systems have been around in the houseboat industry for decades.
You have an inverter charger that accepts power from a (240v) solar panel, generator, batteries, or shore power, and activates the sources in the pre-programmed hierachy, with the aim of charging batteries. The better ones would never float unless on mains or solar, and the genset would kick in if the draw exceeded a preset threshold. Power is stored in big 2v cells that look similar to your pic, generally as a 24 or 48v system. Importantly the invertor would never release power to the street. Unfortunately tesla have gone down the DC path with powerwall, and that will severly complicate off-grid systems that rely on multiple energy sources.

 

[360C]

Good to know.

Thanks for this pictures. Looks like you need a fair bit of room (and wall space) for the full battery solution, something that would be challenging for my house .

I would assume that battery systems might Powerwall and zcell might help at least a little bit here... However imagine you would still need the room for the inverters, chargers, switchboards, etc. Would be really good however for the occasion when the power does really go down for almost a week due a tree falling over power lines.

Yes, the components take up quite a lot of room and you are looking at 850kg of batteries, so you need to be careful where you put them.

I wouldn't count on Powerwall being a solution to limited space either, they are absolutely HUGE. Most people have only seen them in photos which rarely have anything else next to them to give some perspective to their size. I saw one last week which confirmed what my solar guy had told me about their size. A lot of homes "might" have enough wall space for one unit; but very few would have enough to run more. At 7kw a unit that isn't going to do much more than run an average home for circa 6hrs or so.

 

[houdini]

What is the total running costs (not including costs on the website designer as part of the upfront costs) of owning a Model S in Australia?

I can think of:

• electricity - depends on usage - not particularly interested in this here.
• registration - assume this is the same for any car - my last registration fee for my existing (including TAC and insurance duty) was $719.90 in Victoria for the year.
• maintenance of the car - as described here . If you pay in advance, looks like $4,500 for 8 years (depending on how far you drive), or average $562.50 per year.
• insurance - how much do insurance companies charge?

Is there anything else I missed?

You get $100 discount on rego in Victoria for an electric vehicle. Also servicing only costs if you get it done. Tesla will honour the warranty even if you don't get the car serviced. One famous tesla owner has had two services in 200,000kms.

 

[360C]

The comment was made that 20kw system was needed just to charge the car. My comment was that you dont need a 20kw system to charge a tesla. I absolutely agree that for a large house 20kw system is probably not even close.

Sure; but who is going to have a solar system solely for the purpose of charging their Tesla and ignore the rest of the house?

In the unlikely event that they did do that, my experience tells me that they would need at least 15kw to be able to charge the car most of the year round in Melbourne.

 

[360C]

Grid disconnected systems have been around in the houseboat industry for decades.
You have an inverter charger that accepts power from a (240v) solar panel, generator, batteries, or shore power, and activates the sources in the pre-programmed hierachy, with the aim of charging batteries. The better ones would never float unless on mains or solar, and the genset would kick in if the draw exceeded a preset threshold. Power is stored in big 2v cells that look similar to your pic, generally as a 24 or 48v system. Importantly the invertor would never release power to the street. Unfortunately tesla have gone down the DC path with powerwall, and that will severly complicate off-grid systems that rely on multiple energy sources.

Yes, for the main part it is not entirely new technology. Tesla marketing makes it sound like they invented it; but all they did was make it sexy

 

[alpal]

You get $100 discount on rego in Victoria for an electric vehicle ...

I argued with 4 senior Vic Roads people when registering my Tesla who repeatedly informed me that as my car wasn't a hybrid it didn't qualify for this reduction. Clearly I could have fought on but - WTF! I remember also their system had trouble recording my two motors and on and on ... I left there feeling lucky to have registered my car at all!

 

[raynewman]

I argued with 4 senior Vic Roads people when registering my Tesla who repeatedly informed me that as my car wasn't a hybrid it didn't qualify for this reduction. Clearly I could have fought on but - WTF! I remember also their system had trouble recording my two motors and on and on ... I left there feeling lucky to have registered my car at all!

Probably shouldn't have registered it as it probably doesn't class as a vehicle anyway.

 

[Brian May]

Unfortunately tesla have gone down the DC path with powerwall, and that will severly complicate off-grid systems that rely on multiple energy sources

Not sure what you mean here. Aren't all batteries DC?

It occurred to me that if you have a big DC battery in your home, and you want to charge the Tesla from the battery (e.g. the house battery is charged from Solar and you have excess power stored), the I would think the efficient way to charge you Tesla would be with a DC connection straight to your battery. Suspect what happen however is the DC power is converted to AC for the Tesla connector, fed into the car as AC, and then turned back into DC.

At 7kw a unit that isn't going to do much more than run an average home for circa 6hrs or so.

Yes, I have wondered about that. Our average daily usage from bill is 26kWh, so your estimate of 6 hours would be approx correct. Of course this time is likely to go down for peak evening usage...

 

[Brian May]

I argued with 4 senior Vic Roads people when registering my Tesla who repeatedly informed me that as my car wasn't a hybrid it didn't qualify for this reduction.

I guess if I was registering an electric car here, I should look at the law first and see exactly what it says. Make sure electric cars do indeed qualify for this reduction. Doing a quick Google search suggests that they might in fact be right.

 

[alpal]

Yes, let's make a law to reward those who emit less and apply it in the most absurd way possible. Up there for thinking.

 

[Brian May]

Looks like this is correct. Hybrid cars only.

Hybrid vehicle registration discount : VicRoads

 

[alpal]

I'm certain that when Vic Roads finally wakes up and joins the rest of the world in their efforts to save this planet of ours, they might apply this incredibly generous discount for total electric vehicles as well. I'm going to sleep so much better tonight.

 

[paulp]

Sure; but who is going to have a solar system solely for the purpose of charging their Tesla and ignore the rest of the house?

In the unlikely event that they did do that, my experience tells me that they would need at least 15kw to be able to charge the car most of the year round in Melbourne.

We purchased 14 more panels with the first tesla (3.5kw) and it has proven to be enough to keep the car charged averaging around 90km per day 4 to 5 days a week, and we are exporting more than we used to (inc winter) so 3.5 was too many. North facing optimum conditions. Melbourne would be less efficient as its more southerly.

 

[paulp]

Not sure what you mean here. Aren't all batteries DC?

It occurred to me that if you have a big DC battery in your home, and you want to charge the Tesla from the battery (e.g. the house battery is charged from Solar and you have excess power stored), the I would think the efficient way to charge you Tesla would be with a DC connection straight to your battery. Suspect what happen however is the DC power is converted to AC for the Tesla connector, fed into the car as AC, and then turned back into DC.



Yes, I have wondered about that. Our average daily usage from bill is 26kWh, so your estimate of 6 hours would be approx correct. Of course this time is likely to go down for peak evening usage...

Yes all batteries are DC, however the better option for panels are mini invertors on each panel that provide 240 ac out of the panel, which reduces cable sizes and losses, and gives you the correct voltage to use direct into your house.
Powerwall is ideally suited to charging your tesla. Supplying your house is somewhat more complicated and restricted depending on what you need to achieve, but Im told tesla are addressing that lack of flexibility ummmm 'soon'. I'm yet too see any advantage of powerwall over any other option, other than as 360C said, tesla have made it sexy.

 

[eclectricdave]

My friend will be powering a new house and charging his Tesla. Battery storage will not be high so he has to charge when sunlight allows. So 20kW in poor sunlight is not that outrageous.
I fronted VicRoads yesterday to transfer my rego to Victorian one . I didnt get my $100 disc for EV. I ll be back Tuesday armed with a copy of the friends rego which shows the $100 discount. Victorians have to stand their ground hybrid includes ev.